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Collecting Lincolns And Color-Blindness... :-(

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 16 / Views: 3,455Next Topic Page 2 of 2
Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts
 Posted 04/09/2005  6:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list
Geeze Zak,, dont take it so hard, I still respect your opinion,(YA LIKE THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE) I know !!!!

any way, if you do have a color blindness you can adjust to it by shades and still pick the good Red Ones !!!

Rick

Rest in Peace
United States
2884 Posts
 Posted 04/09/2005  6:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mike to your friends list
Zakgold, Your not an Electrican or Painter by trade are you? Mike
Valued Member
United States
382 Posts
 Posted 04/09/2005  6:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zakgold to your friends list
No...I'm in sales and marketing for a color measurement company (isn't that ironic?). You know those devices...you see them at everything from Home Depot to Auto Body Shops that measure and communicate color.
Forum Mom
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United States
5877 Posts
 Posted 04/09/2005  7:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Susanlynn9 to your friends list
I wouldn't feel too discouraged. At least now you know that you might be "color-challenged". (Is that PC enough?) I know that they can correct a myriad of problems with lasic surgery nowadays...can they do that with color-blindness?
Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts
 Posted 04/09/2005  8:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgan Fred to your friends list
I was tested by the Army for color blindness maybe 20 years ago and found I had problems in the various shades of browns, enough so that it almost got me kicked out of the Army. This was something new for me, but it made me aware that I was moving on in years. Maybe it's just as well I stay away from coppers and stick to silvers, i.e., my lovely Morgans.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts
 Posted 04/10/2005  4:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add national dealer to your friends list
Zak,

I have a customer that is legally blind and still picks the most beautiful coins in the world. He has a very nifty trick. Now you showed me some very beautiful Lincoln Cents last fall at Palm Beach. If you are having difficulties in distinguishing a light cleaning, take one of your nice Red, Red Brown, and Brown slabbed coins with you to a show. Place the "wanted" coin next to each to determine the color. Teach yourself the fine basics that if it does not match EXACTLY that you will not buy without an opinion. Most dealers will not have a problem with having a second opinion. If they do, you should know better than to deal with them anyways. If you can't seem to develop a little system to use, stick to the slabs or very trusted dealers.
Valued Member
United States
382 Posts
 Posted 04/11/2005  06:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zakgold to your friends list
I have a number of slabs graded by PCGS, NGC, etc. at MS63BN to MS67RD for "wheaties". Where I fall short is the variation of strikes from year to year. For instance, the 1920's were notarious for "weak" strikes and poor attention to quality control. What may deem a MS grade for certain years may only warrant AU (at best) for other years. Also the color of Lincolns are sometimes differant. For instant, spent shell casings were used after WWII hence, altering the color.

Take Morgan dollars also. Experienced collectors can simply look at the obverse and almost tell what mint produced it. What would grade a MS64 for San Francisco may grade a MS66 for New Orleans if you look at just the strike alone.

Along with color, I think that the variations and degree of strike are areas I need to work on. I am a sucker for eye appeal. If it looks good with luster and clean, high focal areas, I want it...trouble is that sometimes I want coins that may not measure up.
Valued Member
United States
89 Posts
 Posted 04/12/2005  6:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Connecticoin to your friends list
Ed, it was nice the ANACS grader was helping you with indentifying artifical color. I think it was a bit personal (and rude) for him to suggest you might be color blind, though.

From reading this and reading other boards, the topic of artifical color on copper has seemed to crop up more often, especially with high dollar early mint state Lincoln cents.

Attached below are ebay auction pictures of two early Lincolns purchased by a PCGS board member. Both coins were "bodybagged" by PCGS for artificial color. These were possibly whizzed as well.

Now, I have no idea how this AC is done, but I suspect the coin doctor dips the coins and then uses some agent to simulate the red, and get rid of the unnatural pink. If anyone can enlighten me on this, I would be interested in general knowledge as to how this is done (to better able detect this crud, not to do if of course).

Lesson here: if you enter the high dollar MS Lincoln market, tread lightly, and arm yourself with knowledge!! Makes you long for the days as a kid of putting Lincolns in Whitman Folders!!

Collecting-Lincolns-And-Color-Blindness...-:-

Collecting-Lincolns-And-Color-Blindness...-:-

Collecting-Lincolns-And-Color-Blindness...-:-

Collecting-Lincolns-And-Color-Blindness...-:-
Valued Member
United States
382 Posts
 Posted 04/12/2005  6:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zakgold to your friends list
Wow!! Beautiful pictures and you are right on...if you tread the high end MSRD Lincolns, you really need to be on your game. I'll admit it. I would look at these coins and just envy the strikes and all...not thinking the color may be "dipped" or artificially toned. That is my biggest concern as some of these coppers look differant from year to year and I have been very hestitate to buy "reds" unless somebody can give me a second opinion. Thanks for the post.
Forum Mom
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5877 Posts
 Posted 04/12/2005  7:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Susanlynn9 to your friends list
They look to me like they were chemically treated. The fields show a roughness that you probably wouldn't see without the magnification of the pictures. It looks to me like the chemical ate into the surface. You can see roughness in the devices also. I'm sure without magnification these coins look gorgeous. Definitely a case of acquiring the knowledge before acquiring the coin.
Valued Member
United States
89 Posts
 Posted 04/13/2005  11:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Connecticoin to your friends list
The roughness may also be from a whizzing to simulate mint luster.

The ebay seller who does this has quite a racket going. He mixes in TPG graded coins to give an overall appearance of a high end Lincoln dealer. Another tipoff that the seller's raw coins are messed with is that they all have the exact same color and hue to them. Real red cents will vary somewhat in color from coin to coin and especially from year to year.
Edited by Connecticoin
04/13/2005 11:56 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts
 Posted 04/13/2005  12:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list
You know, the sad thing is these coins on their own merits in original condition ,would have slabbed high even if they were BRN coins,, sad thing for sure.

Rick
Pillar of the Community
United States
980 Posts
 Posted 04/13/2005  12:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SFDukie to your friends list
CTcoin- I'm not personally working on lincs currently, but can you tell us the ebay seller so we can avoid him "like black death"
Don
Valued Member
United States
89 Posts
 Posted 04/13/2005  4:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Connecticoin to your friends list
Metalman, I agree. Those coins were probably nice BN or RB mint state coins, now they are near worthless junk.

SF Dukie, click here: http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...id=-1&de=off

Two of the three negs are the coins pictured above. The 1914 was sold as a 66RD for $220! Amazingly, though, if you browse through the feedback, most buyers say they are pleased because they do not know any better.
Valued Member
United States
382 Posts
 Posted 04/13/2005  6:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zakgold to your friends list
I saw many of his coins before. All of his pics were beautiful...but I could never pay that much for a raw coin on ebay unless I saw it or had somebody else look at them first. That is why I will only bid on slabbed coins by the TPG's if it suits my fancy.

Check out his previous auctions...wondeful picsa and all. Looks too good to be true...so I guess it is.
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