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1859 Indian Cent With A Funny Shield

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Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 12/14/2010  08:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nod2003 to your friends list
I had no idea that such a thing even existed. Great to learn new stuff.
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 Posted 12/14/2010  11:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KenRingold to your friends list
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 Posted 12/14/2010  11:19 am  Show Profile   Check robbudo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add robbudo to your friends list
Thanks for the comments everyone. It'll definitely be a centerpiece of my Indian collection. I actually wanted the 1859 pattern with the regular shield, which was struck in 'high numbers' (I've heard up to 1,500) when THIS one came along at the same price. And since they only made about 20 of these with the ornamental shield, I couldn't say no.
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 Posted 12/14/2010  11:20 am  Show Profile   Check robbudo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add robbudo to your friends list
One more thing - I purposely didn't put the grade on this one. It's in an Old Green Holder so I'm curious if you all think it might upgrade. Any guesses as to the grade?
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 Posted 12/14/2010  2:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add upstate to your friends list
How do pattern coin get out to the general public?
Just curious as to the history of a coin like this that is enormously rare
Seems like it should be worth HUGE money -- 1 0f 20 WOW
Super nice!

Grade - well I'm thinking the wear looking stuuf near the T in liberty
are smudges on the capsule. The fields are as clean as can be.
I don't know the eye appeal which is important when you're in the upper MS range but i'll
guess MS66 (assuming it's real pretty)
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 Posted 12/14/2010  2:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nod2003 to your friends list
I think I see a bit of wear on the feather tips for an AU58
Valued Member
Canada
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 Posted 12/14/2010  6:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cazzuey to your friends list
only made 20? whats the value of this?
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 Posted 12/14/2010  8:34 pm  Show Profile   Check robbudo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add robbudo to your friends list
1. The coin is slabbed PCGS as MS-63 in an old green holder. I agree with the grade, but there is always the lure (hype) that it could upgrade because it's in the old holder.

2. Cost? Value? Sure, they only made 20 of them, but there is also very little market for them. Scroll up and you'll see many serious coin collectors unaware they made these coins. Cost, well, I don't want to give a dollar amount. However, right now, there is a pretty sweet 1858 Indian Head cent pattern (that's right, 1858 Indian head, not a flying eagle!) on ebay in AU-50 (ANACS) for $950, although they are accepting 'best offers'. Is that a lot of money for the coin? I think that's a really good deal in my book. The bottom line is that this coin did cost a pretty penny, but I feel I got a good deal and it's definitely worth more to me than I paid.
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 Posted 12/14/2010  9:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Moe145 to your friends list
I love threads like this!

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 Posted 12/14/2010  9:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mmerc20 to your friends list
It is a very interesting variation that I didn't know existed. Thanks for schooling me.
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 Posted 12/14/2010  9:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cwb1877 to your friends list
Pattern coins are really cool and that is just a supreme example, robbudo.

I almost sprung for an 1858 Indian Head pattern cent a while back, but I ended up spending the money on a different coin. They look just like the regular issue 1859 IHC, but dated 1858...they're way cool!

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United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2010  1:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list

Quote:
How do pattern coin get out to the general public?

There were several different ways. Visitors to the mint in the mid 1800's could purchase surplus patterns from the mint. If you knew about a specific pattern you could write the mint and request to purchase one. Local dealer William Idler had good contacts with mint officials which allowed a lot of pattern and other rarities to be channeled from the Mint into the market. And then there were the two gold fifty dollar patterns of 1877 that William Woodin bought for $10,000. These had peen purchased from the mint via the usual manner back in the late 1870's, but when Woodin purchase them on the open market it cause an indignant reaction that someone was making so much money off of something that used to be government property that their return was demanded (Kind of sounds like the upset some people have over the secondary market sale of the hockey pucks) Well Woodin had paid $10,000 for them and he wasn't just going to give them back. So the Mint made a deal. In exchange for the two half union patterns Woodin was given two trunks full of pattern coins. These became the source material for the Adams-Woodin book on pattern coins (standard reference before the Judd book)and the source of many of the pattern seen on the market today.

The 1858 and 1859 pattern cents though also had a special source. There were soo many requests for examples of the pattern coins of the Indian Head cent that the mint made up and sold sets of all the 1858 and 1859 pattern cents. This is why they are some of the most common patterns.
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 Posted 12/15/2010  8:11 pm  Show Profile   Check robbudo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add robbudo to your friends list
Excellent history there Conder101. This is a very nice educational thread, so I'll add just a few things to what you state.

There were initially 12 Flying eagle/Indian cent patterns from 1858 that could be procured and were considered a 'set'. Originally, there were about 50 such sets, but when word got out, and requests increased, the number of sets was doubled to around 100. 'Popular patterns' like the 1858 Indian Head cent were struck in significantly higher numbers (I've heard up to 1,000). In addition, there were numerous patterns that were not considered part of the 'set-of-12' and were minted in significantly fewer numbers - anywhere from one example to around 20 or 30. Putting together an original set of 12 today can be a lifelong challenge and many can be purchased for 800 to 1,500 dollars.

In addition to the 1858 patterns, there were a few different patterns made in 1859, most differing in the reverse. One is the ornamental shield pictured in this thread, one is the reverse of the regular Indian cents (which just started the next year), and then there is a reverse called the Oak Wreath, which is pretty cool (and the next one I want). Hopefully I can post pictures in a year or two when I've saved up enough to get it.
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 Posted 12/25/2010  2:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BOJO3811 to your friends list
Your penny just blew my mind!
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1121 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2010  7:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add neversuited1 to your friends list
Wow...what a great coin! Thank you for sharing this beautiful specimen!
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