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Holed Early Coins

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Pillar of the Community
United States
1203 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2006  10:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add OldDan to your friends list
quote:
Originally posted by Becky

Don't you just love the square holes? Most of the coins look like they were punched instead of drilled.


Becky, have you stopped to think about those holes and that they more than likely were punched. In those days they used square nails and it sure seems likely that they would have used one of these to make the hole.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2177 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2006  11:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thingee to your friends list
Wow. I too will see punched holes differently. This is all very educational and interesting! Thanks everyone, especially Ralph for starting this thread.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1582 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2006  2:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ralph to your friends list
Yes Thingee, I am learning a good bit myself about an area that, heretofore, I thought of as ruined coins. I didn't realize I would learn so much when I started it, but I'm sure glad I did. And, hopefully there will be more to come.
Valued Member
United States
218 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2006  8:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add The_Cave_Troll to your friends list
quote:
Originally posted by Susanlynn9

Ralph, there are a number of collectors who specifically look for holed coins. I remember that there was someone on another forum (I think it was Collectors Universe) who had a jacket covered with holed coins.

I am moving this to the Main Forum for better exposure.



I also am collecting holed coins. I have a Dansco 7070 type set of holed coins that is pretty neat.

They do have some value. Basically figure out what the details grade is and then divide that number by 3 if it is a common date circulated coin. As the coin moves into the unc range then it decreases to only about 1/5 of an unholed MS60's value (or less). If it is a key date then it also has a smaller value (it is worth 1/5 to 1/10 of an unholed example). these are general rules and there are some exceptions and also there are instances where the values stretch one way or the other.

Have fun! the best part about holed coins is that they can be acquired cheaply, usually.
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United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2006  9:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list
longnine009 - you asked about the position of the hole in the 1838 Zs OM counterfeit 8R "Was the hole a way of getting rid of a mistake?"

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...110027833731

Actually I was trying to point out the fact that the position of the hole is such that the coin would not hang upright when suspended from a string or chain. The normal position for a jewelry mount is top dead center but a cancellation hole is more like the one shown on this coin.

I won another tonight that has a hole through the date - which is another typical location for a cancellation. This positioning can be confused with a jewelry mount whenever the coin uses the "coin rotation" as opposed to a medalic die positioning axis.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...270025339933
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 Posted 09/10/2006  11:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ralph to your friends list
This caused me to go back and look at my holed coins - the 1848 large cent has the hole drilled where the 1 should be in the date. Counterfeit? That brings up another question - why would someone counterfeit a one cent coin, if it were, indeed, a counterfeit? This is interesting.
Valued Member
United States
218 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2006  11:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add The_Cave_Troll to your friends list
quote:
Originally posted by Ralph

This caused me to go back and look at my holed coins - the 1848 large cent has the hole drilled where the 1 should be in the date. Counterfeit? That brings up another question - why would someone counterfeit a one cent coin, if it were, indeed, a counterfeit? This is interesting.



one cent used to actually buy things...
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1247 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2006  08:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add longnine009 to your friends list
[quote]Originally posted by swamperbob

longnine009 - you asked about the position of the hole in the 1838 Zs OM counterfeit 8R "Was the hole a way of getting rid of a mistake?"

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...110027833731

Actually I was trying to point out the fact that the position of the hole is such that the coin would not hang upright when suspended from a string or chain. The normal position for a jewelry mount is top dead center but a cancellation hole is more like the one shown on this coin.

I'm not familar with the term. Is it a coin cancelled by authorities because it was found to be underweight? If that's what it means, was the forger perhaps trying to explain an underweight forgery with the hole?
Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2006  09:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list
Ralph - You ask That brings up another question - why would someone counterfeit a one cent coin, if it were, indeed, a counterfeit? This is interesting. There are counterfeits of all denominations of US coins - either made at the time of the originals or since. A rather common forgery seen in Boston was an 1893 US Indian Head cent that was made in the mid-1890s. There were so many that the Secret Service got involved and there were several articles in the local papers. Some of these articles have been reprinted in standard books on counterfeiting as period sources.


longnine009 - the hole was drilled by any number of different people from quasi-official (bankers) to merchants (who had gotten ripped off) to coin dealers (who did it well into the 20th century). The drill hole was meant simply to identify a coin as a forgery. It could be placed anywhere. I know of collectors who specialize in varieties based on the location of the holes. The hole stopped the coin from circulating freely. US Counterfeits have always been illegal to spend even when identified and the same applied to foreign coins until they were demonetized in 1857.

The hole would never be made by the forger - with one exception - a modern copy of an old counterfeit. Because old counterfeits are now valuable there is a growing business of forging counterfeits. In that case, you might see a forger add a drill hole for believability, but that would be a counterfeit made in the past few years only.

You also mentioned counterfeits being underweight. Not all counterfeits are underweight. Some are too heavy and some are exactly the correct weight with the correct assay of silver. The hole was to stop a coin from passing at face value. One fact you may not be aware of is that because silver values fluctuated there were many years when a dollar contained far less than a dollar's worth of silver. At the low point it contained about 23 cents worth so in the 1890s a very lucrative forgery business developed making full weight silver counterfeits. The forgers made a 4 fold return on their investment in silver if the got a dollar to pass at face value. The recently "discovered" micro O Morgan dollars are examples of this kind of forgery as are numerous Portrait 8R coins made in the 1890s to be spent in China.

Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 09/11/2006  6:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add longnine009 to your friends list
SwamperBob, Thank You for your excellent replies! These topics on forgeries just get more and more interesting each time someting comes up.
Valued Member
New Zealand
227 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2006  6:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add grouse12 to your friends list
Man SwamperBob I just love your posts, I learn sooo much every time I read one
Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2006  6:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list
longnine009 and grouse12 - thanks for the comments. If you have any specific questions in this area do not hesitate to ask.
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 09/11/2006  8:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ralph to your friends list
SwamperBob - you are a wealth of knowledge.
Valued Member
United States
179 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2006  10:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fastfords1 to your friends list
Fascinating thread...thought I would mention that I have quite a collection of holed coins of many types, especially 19th century us and canadian...I am getting a silver jewelry maker friend to put jewelry type rings in the coins for my 7 yr old grand daughter, a Young Numismatist, to wear on a bracelet and interchangeably on a necklace. It's a great way for a young person to actually touch and get a feel for the history of these old coins that most kids don't even know exist.

hey, it beats having them lay around in an old forgotten box somewhere!

Best regards to all,
Dennis
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United States
2177 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2006  10:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thingee to your friends list
quote:
Originally posted by fastfords1

Fascinating thread...thought I would mention that I have quite a collection of holed coins of many types, especially 19th century us and canadian...I am getting a silver jewelry maker friend to put jewelry type rings in the coins for my 7 yr old grand daughter, a Young Numismatist, to wear on a bracelet and interchangeably on a necklace. It's a great way for a young person to actually touch and get a feel for the history of these old coins that most kids don't even know exist.

hey, it beats having them lay around in an old forgotten box
somewhere!
Hey, I want one!! Hope your daughter comes to appreciate this item which holds so much history. It will be one of a kind.

Best regards to all,
Dennis

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