What In The Minting Process Can Cause Rim Separation?

The only rims I can think of that are done in a separate process are lettered edges on early US coins. They were rolled between two bars that served as dies, each printing half the edge wording.

The security edge is used on some non-US coins. It's like an Oreo cookie. The top and bottom thirds are reeded, the center third is inset and is a series of beads. The edge is put on first, then when the coins are struck, the pressure squeezes the reeded part slightly over the beads, like a letter C. If a counterfeiter tries to make a cast, his casting material sticks in the top and bottom curls of the C, and it can't be removed without damaging the detail.

I don't know if the rim would actually split off if I could get a blade between it and the coin. The same space between the rim and coin does not appear on the other side of the coin. Please remember that this was likely produced in a garage somewhere 50 years ago. The seller says that this coin is of the rimmed variety as opposed to the broad rim variety. I don't know what either of the variety descriptions mean or what actual process was used that would account for the appearance of the rim separation. I know there is an expert here on practically every coin issue, so I am here for my education on this issue. Thanks again in advance.

Glad you posted this one. I never heard of this organization so I looked it all up via Google. Interesting organization that at one time not only made those coins but petitioned many governments that they owned outer space. What I really found amazing is it started in an area of Chicago and was verified in the Cook County Building here in Illinois. I find it amazing since I go to coin shows and coin stores all over his area nd no one ever mentioned this organization.
Next coin show is not far from that place so I'll start asking about them. I wonder what those coins are worth.

The pictures are not good. I see what appears to be finning at 10:00 (Metal squeezed up between the collar and the neck of the die.) The rest of the dark areas just look like corrosion in these pictures.

Thanks for the input. And I apologize for the poor photos. I'm afraid they are made of the best photographic skills I possess. What looks like crud, outside of 10 o'clock, is actually spacing.

I know this coin is the real thing, and highly desirable for those who collect micronation tokens (I used the term "coin" too loosely perhaps). It is listed in the Krause Unusual World Coins catalog, along with the small variety of .900 and .999 gold 1 Celeston 'coins.' The seller is a long-time, major collector of these. I just didn't understand his explanation, because I don't know the terminology. I am confident the piece is silver, and I know there are more than 100 collectors of micronation offerings. I am, indeed, deciding whether or not to send it back, only because of the rim issue. For those not familiar, it is worth a few minutes Googling The Nation of Celestial Space. It is a terrific story with a terrific history. Thanks again for your help. This is an amazing place. Any other comments or explanations would also be appreciated.

The collar is the third die. There is the anvil die which strikes the one side of the coin. The hammer die which is the moveable die which strikes the other side of the coin. And the collar which is a ring shaped die which forms the edge of the coin. The collar die sits around the stationary anvil die. The collar moves back flush with the anvil die as a planchet is moved into striking position. The planchet is slightly smaller in diameter than the coin it produces. Then the collar slides up to surround the planchet. At this point the hammer die strikes the planchet forcing the diameter to expand out against the collar forming the edge of the coin. On dimes, quarters and half dollars the collar forms the reeding on the edge. On cents and nickels it forms the smooth edge. But this all happens in one process as the coin is struck. The finning mentioned above is caused when the striking pressure is too much for the thickness of the planchet causing metal to flow up between the collar and the neck of the die leaving this thin raised edge on the rim.

Sorry, but I can't help you with this one. I am only familiar with the minting process used at the US Mint and cutting down coins is not a process they use. Hopefully someone else has some insight. If you find the information outside of this forum please post it. I am curious myself.

just carl, your interest and willingness to pursue this at the coin show is appreciated, and I would love a follow-up on what the experts there have to say about 1 joule 'coin' minting process. Please keep in mind that Celestia, or The Nation of Celestial Space is considered to be micronation rather than an organization. In fact, the are the longest-lived micronations of all and, as you discovered, have their claimed, physical territory (all of outer space outside of the earth's atmosphere) legally deeded (in 1948) and filed with the Cook County, IL courts.

The purity of gold and silver is likely accurate and verified and reported in The Unusual World Coins catalog. Remember, in 1948, the US was still on the gold standard and gold was set at $34.71/oz, and in 1959-1961, when the gold 1 Celeston coins were struck, the price of gold had risen only to under $35.25/oz. Since the weight of each coin was a hair less than 2.2 grams, and few coins were produced, the cost was not prohibitive.

According to the collector from whom I purchased the silver 1 joule coin, some of the family of the founder of this micronation still remain. He has been in contact with family members for decades where he has obtained information not fully documented elsewhere.

I have decided to return the coin to the collector/seller of my silver 1 joule, and wait for a second one, without the extensive rim-separation condition issues, to come to market. This is the first and only one I've seen, but if I've seen one, eventually, I will see another. Thanks in advance for any information on the striking process of the coin that resulted in the separation as shown in the photos from this thread.