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 Replies: 23 / Views: 5,045 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1812 Posts |
Mike, I just checked out the 1964 Cent posted on ebay and one of the red flags for me is that the coins reverse side shows no sign of rotation of a previous strike, I would also expect more detail on the Obverse... I have found numerous fake error coins and currency posted on ebay in the recent few years and no longer use their site, in the past I would warn bidders of what they were bidding on, ebay has made changes where that is no longer possible... I have spent a great deal of time trying to take high resolution photos of the Spain 1 & 2 Euro Cent coins I purchased some 10 years ago from a seller in Europe, all to no avail due to the plastic slab... I can assure all that both my coins show correct die alignment and strong details on each strike, the 2 Euro cent piece not posted in this forum is a 2000 dated 2 Euro cent that entered 2001 coin dies (could have been a Dec/Jan. timeline) with the obverse side facing the reverse die, the coin was struck three times with a rotation of 90ΒΊ between each strike, all in collar rotation with clear details of the understrikes, all four strikes are in perfect die alignment (Obv. & Rev.) on each side of the coin... This coin may have had some assistance with the Mint employee's at the time of manufacture, but I don't believe anyone can create fake dies and come close to making a coin with the details anywhere close to what I have... I've been away from CONECA since late 2005 (I thought it was earlier), if their website shows high quality photos of genuine coins that were struck with fake dies (both obverse & reverse) in correct die alignment and multi-struck (with strong details) over the non error coins to create aftermarket errors, I would consider joining again, only this time I would not want to be shut out like I was as past member #N-3600... This is one of those posts where we both have to agree to disagree on whether or not this is a genuine error... |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4000 Posts |
Edited by Scooby Due
04/15/2011 3:06 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1666 Posts |
Broken-Coin:
Quite frankly, if the people at CONECA noticed the same track record with your error coins that I have from your posts, then it's no surprise that they did not respond to your inquiries.
I claim no superior expertise in errors, but I do have experience as a full time dealer in the stuff. The coins you have recently posted are basically riding that wave of "assisted" errors that have recently coming on the market from both SE Asian countries and various Euro coins.
I'm sorry to say, but I'm guessing you tried your luck with the reputable grading companies and had your coins "bodybagged" before resorting to the non-reputable ones.
We are all free to believe whatever we want, but sometimes reality stares us in the face so sharply that it can't be ignored.
Edited by Numismat
04/24/2011 01:40 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2738 Posts |
The terms "assisted error" and "intentional error" refer to errors that were intentionally fabricated inside a government mint. They do have value. Such pieces should not be confused with damaged coins, altered coins, and counterfeits, which are generated outside the mint. My assessment of the Spanish eurocent was that it is an altered coin.
Error coin writer and researcher.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1812 Posts |
I've been trying to get clear photos of the fields of these coins to show the under-strikes... I've used my digital microscope to take some photos, and just uploaded them to photobucket... The one problem I have is the photo is quite small, whereas my email photos can be zoomed in and clearly show the details of each under-strike... I would place my money where my mouth (or should I say keyboard) is and challenge anyone to produce a exact copy to what I have with fake dies (as was suggested by M.Diamond), in the meantime i'll try and get some clearer photos (if anyone here is serious and wants to take on this challenge, please advise)... As for submitting my coins to NGC or PCGS and having them "bodybagged" is pure nonsense, As I mentioned on this site in a past post, NGC and PCGS are perfect for certifying rare and high value coins, most collectors realize errors & varieties don't carry enough of a premium to cover the costs the top 2 charge... In the past dozen years or so I have used both PCI and SEGS for certification as they were the cheaper grading services that advertised in the Cherry Pickers Guide, if they were non-reputable as suggested above, why would the latest Cherry Pickers Guide, forwarded by Q.David Bowers allow them to continue to advertise their services if they believed the grading service would do more harm then good... I guess many focus on the holder and not the coin, and while I never submitted coins to PCGS due to their high prices, I have used NGC and was NOT happy with their service... I joined NGC for the sole purpose of submitting 2 rare error notes to PMG that cost close to one hundred dollars each to holder, again, these were high value notes that warranted the additional fees charged by the top graders (PCGS was not used as they did not certify foreign (England) currency whereas PMG did), both notes are posted on this site... I know the coins from Malaysia I posted here are assisted errors, as are some Philippines coins I have not posted in this forum... The 2003D Quad-struck Lincoln Cent I have posted in the USA Error Forum was submitted to SEGS in a bulk certification shipment as I didn't know the exact population of triple and quad strikes for that year and placed a lower value at the time... Years have gone by since that coin has been slabbed and not finding another Quad Strike 2003D Lincoln Cent anywhere on the Internet, this may be a unique piece that would warrant crossing over to PCGS... With well over 1,000 error coins on hand, I could post many on this website but chose not to so as not to overwhelm anyone... In closing, if anyone wants to take on the challenge above and produce a copy of my 1 & 2 Spain Euro Cent errors, we can end this back & forth bickering... |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2669 Posts |
I don't believe anyone is bickering - but opinions are based on photos that are not clear, for one thing. Mike D has undoubtedly seen more of these types (and others) than you or I, and can probably tell from a glance. In any case, to clear it up for everyone else, you'll need to get those better images.
As for advertising - books and magazines normally do not censor who advertises unless it's blatant misrepresentation or fraud. Case in point, there is a well known basement slabber who has a full-page ad in The Numismatist every month, right next to much more respected outfits. If they've got the money, they advertise, but that does not mean they are reputable.
If one would want to send their coins in and not pay top prices (yet still get an accurate appraisal of an error or variety), I would suggest ANACS. They are nowhere near as expensive and great at designating the different varieties and errors. Plus no membership is needed.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1812 Posts |
I have sent numerous coins to ANACS for certification and the only time I had a real problem with them was when I purchased a error coin from Fred Wienberg and submitted it to them... This was a double struck dime with the first strike in collar and second strike out of collar ~ the end result was what looked like a large broadstrike with the ridged edge... ANACS holdered is as a MS63 broadstrike and not a double strike... When I contacted them their reply was that the edge ridges may be coin damage from a counting machine... Asked why this coin wasn't in a "problem" holder if they believed that, they advised that I have the option of re-submit the coin to check for damage, and the grader says it is not a double strike... I forwarded all my ANACS correspondence to Fred Weinberg and we just laughed it off... I know for a fact that ANACS is very hard on certifying high grade (mint state) Morgan & Peace dollars, Coins that I purchased at the 65 level came back in 61 & 62 slabs... I am working on microscopic photos for the coin in this thread that shows the details of the understrikes... When I email the photos from the microscope page to my inbox, I am able to download the images in windows and zoom in extremely close, when I save the photos then download them to my photobucket account, then post the link on this site, the end result is a small photo that places me back to square one... Should no one take me up on my offer to create obverse & reverse dies and multi-strike them on Spain (dated) 2000 Euro Cent & 2001 2-Euro Cent pieces to prove to me that fake overstrikes can leave designs under what Mike calls the original strike and I call the third strike, the only other option I can offer is to send the images in email format and advise the viewer what to focus on (pick-up-point) when they zoom in... Besides my believing this is the real thing to the point of backing it up with cash (amount neg.) to produce another one and prove me wrong, it is the time line factor as I've had these 2 coins for 10 years (when the design was less then 2 years old) and numismatic articles on overstrikes from fake dies to create false errors didn't show up in print 10 years ago (at least nothing that I've come across)... While I would not enjoy being proved wrong, I would look at the fake coin dies challenge as a valuable lesson in genuine error detection and I'm willing to pay the price for this education... As for the dime I sent to ANACS, maybe Mike can run a Coin World article on broadstruck dimes and quarters with edge reeding (if he hasn't already done so as I let my subscription lapse about 9 months last year during a 2 year long battle in divorce court)... It's going to take me a little bit of time to post and tag the email photos, should anyone want to check them out to see what I'm unable to post here, kindly email me at vernonpeterson@gmail.com and enter "Spain Error" on the subject line so I don't delete it as spam... |
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Forum Dad
 United States
24173 Posts |
Quote:
should anyone want to check them out to see what I'm unable to post here Sure you can, just put the photobucket URL between tags like so.. [im g] URL HERE[/i mg] On a side note, if you want to send me this coin, I can guaranty at least 1500px wide quality photos to be posted here. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1812 Posts |
Note; All my photos here are from photobucket, my reference to "what I'm unable to post here" is the higher resolution microscope photos that end up as small photos when posted here, with no option of zooming in on important details... This is why I suggested the email route that gives the viewer the option to zoom in...
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Forum Dad
United States
24173 Posts |
Don't know what you could possibly mean. Pixels are pixels and 99% of members monitors here are 96 DPI/PPI. That doesn't change with the resolution of the image. Anyways, my offer still stands, I have zero problem shooting through slabs, in fact with my setup you'll never look at PCGS MS65 the same again. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1666 Posts |
The problem could be with the device. If using a USB Micoscope, the pictures can often be small unless you use the screen capture method to save them (alt + ctrl + print screen buttons). If the software you have does not allow options for zoom, try doing a screen capture and then go to a program like MS paint and paste it. That way you can completely marginalize any settings the microscope and software comes with.
Wow Bobby, I don't generally slab coins, but your MS65 photo means that I've been under-grading some of my coins all along. Thanks! =)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1812 Posts |
The one problem I had was the USB Microscope I used a on my computer a few years ago was not compatible with the new laptop I purchased 2 years ago... I had given my old computer to my daughter when I purchased the laptop, and when I tried to post some microscope photos in this forum, I had to re-install the program in my daughter's computer and take some photos... To access the photos taken, I then opened up my GMail email account on my daughter's computer and emailed the photos to myself (this is confusing), I then logged in my email account on the laptop and saved the photos in my windows photo album (!!)... After that, I signed into my photobucket account and uploaded the photos to that account so I could post them here... When I posted the photos in the "Quick Reply" message and went to "Preview Reply", the photos were so small that even I couldn't locate the details clearly enough and didn't bother posting the reply... On my laptop I have the option of zooming in on the photos, whereas the photos here from my photobucket account didn't give me that option...
Numismat's advise above may help others, but he lost me at the multiple screen buttons and I have no clue what MS paint is...
It should be noted that I'm a old analog guy stumbling through the digital age... When my son-in-law gave me the "Windows for Dummies" guide, I replied that it's way to advanced for me and asked if they have a "Windows for @ssholes" guide to get me started...
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Quote:if they were non-reputable as suggested above, why would the latest Cherry Pickers Guide, forwarded by Q.David Bowers allow them to continue to advertise their services if they believed the grading service would do more harm then good... It is called "conflict of interest", Bill Fivaz is a consultant for SEGS so of course he would allow a SEGS ad in the CPG. That does not necessarily make them more reputable and accurate though. Yes, you can find good coins in SEGS slabs but you have to carefully scrutinize them for problems and misattribution because they can be a bit sloppy at times. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1812 Posts |
I knew J.T.Stanton was employed at PCI when I contacted him to inspect my 1943 DDO Quarter when NGC refused to place the said variety on their holder (coin is posted in the USA variety forum)... As mentioned above, I became very concerned when the turn-around time exceeded the normal time-line and was advised that my error coins had been taken to a coin show in Chicago, for what I can only assume was multi-opinions prior to slabbing as genuine... In the meantime I continue to focus on clearer close-up photos... |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1666 Posts |
MS paint is Microsoft paint - if you are using windows it will be under Start -> Programs -> Accessories -> Paint
To save a full size image as it shows on your screen just hold down the alt and ctrl buttons to the left or right of the space bar and press the "prt sc" or "print screen" button that is at the top right on most keyboards, next to the home, delete, insert buttons. You can then paste the image into a program like paint or any more advanced imaging program like Photoshop.
Edited by Numismat
04/29/2011 2:38 pm
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Replies: 23 / Views: 5,045 |
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Posted 04/15/2011 2:53 pm
