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1795 $1 Flowing Hair (Authenticity Validation)

 
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Valued Member
United States
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 Posted 09/15/2017  11:47 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add cableguy815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi Everyone,

I have been a collector of coins for many years and am pretty good at determining forgeries. My forte however is world coins. I am contemplating a purchase of one of my first "serious" US coins and am hoping someone can opine on the condition and authenticity of this coin. I know there are many variations so any insight on the variation/die info would be highly appreciated.

Many Thanks!
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 Posted 09/15/2017  12:15 pm  Show Profile   Check BigSilver's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BigSilver to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am no expert, but here is my thoughts.
Variety looks like it would be http://www.PCGScoinfacts.com/Coin/Detail/39977
As far as authenticity, it looks good, but as with all high dollar amount coins, TPG verification is very recommended.
EDITED to add
Edited by BigSilver
09/15/2017 12:15 pm
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United States
414 Posts
 Posted 09/15/2017  12:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cableguy815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Many thanks for the quick reply! It is absolutely my intention to have this submitted to NGC or PCGS (probably NGC).

I am aware that there are two leaf and three leaf varieties and the one above is the three leaf one. Are there any other notable differences?

Any thoughts on grade? Without having this coin in hand, I think I'd conservatively give this a VF35-XF40 without too much concern of over-grading.

Thanks again!
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 Posted 09/15/2017  12:37 pm  Show Profile   Check BigSilver's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BigSilver to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What nailed down the variety for me on this one is the fact that the curl of the hair does not touch the star behind it. Of all the varieties listed on PCGS, the only match was B-5 BB-27. I agree about the grade, but I wonder if the surfaces may warrant a details grade for ED (environmental damage) they seem porous.
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 Posted 09/15/2017  1:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's a lovely example and I agree it should be in the 35 or 40 grade. A valuable coin, indeed.

Most of the forgeries always gets the wear pattern on a circulated example so far off its easy to catch. This shows correct rub in the right places.

Still, I would NEVER buy this coin without NGC or PCGS certification.
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 Posted 09/15/2017  1:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nfine to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For the novices on this site, BigSilver, will you please point out where you see porous surfaces. I don't know if I'll ever be able to afford a coin like this but I would greatly appreciate learning as much as I can when they show up as authentic on this site.

Nick
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 Posted 09/15/2017  1:20 pm  Show Profile   Check edweather's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add edweather to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see some what might be minor porosity around the rim on reverse and obverse.
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 Posted 09/15/2017  1:41 pm  Show Profile   Check Andrew99's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Andrew99 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not B-5 as it doesn't have the die scratch in the left field. It doesn't match any of the other known die varieties either, so I'd say its likely a fake.
The collection is in your mind. Dispose of your albums and free your mind from the tyranny of holes.
Edited by Andrew99
09/15/2017 1:44 pm
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 Posted 09/15/2017  1:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cableguy815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Many thanks to you fine gentlemen for your opinions. I was pretty sure this coin was authentic, based on my knowledge and based on the fact that it hails from a very large and reputable auction house, but it is still nice to get a sanity check every once in a while.

@moxking, generally I would be inclined to agree with you. Purchasing these kind of high $$$ coins is always a big gamble but at around $3,600 (depending on FX) I feel this to be a worthy gamble (I scoured Heritage archives with picky thoroughness over the past week or so). I'll hold off my celebration until after this coin comes back certified from NGC.

@Andrew, for my sake, I hope you are wrong
Edited by cableguy815
09/15/2017 1:50 pm
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 Posted 09/15/2017  2:08 pm  Show Profile   Check BigSilver's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BigSilver to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Not B-5 as it doesn't have the die scratch in the left field

I did notice that, but if you look very carefully, it looks like it may have some hint of it. Either way, not much worse than
https://coins.ha.com/itm/early-doll...ction-120115
and this one
https://coins.ha.com/itm/early-doll...tion-120115v
and some others that can be found on Heritage.
It seems that the scratch is not a dead-ringer for this variety.
I am adding this image where I think I see a hint of the scratch.
Edited by BigSilver
09/15/2017 2:20 pm
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 Posted 09/15/2017  2:10 pm  Show Profile   Check Andrew99's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Andrew99 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Its unusual to not see the die scratch on such a high grade example unless there is damage. I'm surprised any legit auction house would sell a coin like that uncertified.
The collection is in your mind. Dispose of your albums and free your mind from the tyranny of holes.
Edited by Andrew99
09/15/2017 2:14 pm
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 Posted 09/15/2017  2:14 pm  Show Profile   Check BigSilver's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BigSilver to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
For the novices on this site, BigSilver, will you please point out where you see porous surfaces

As I mentioned in my post, that includes me.
But I was mostly referring to the texture of the coin. It looks kind of grainy. While grainy is often a sign of a cast counterfeit, I am not getting the feeling that this is one, with the detail as sharp as at is...
Either way, a TPG verification is well in order on such a coin.
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 Posted 09/15/2017  2:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mark1959 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
but at around $3,600 (depending on FX) I feel this to be a worthy gamble


Wonder why it is being offered for roughly half of its value?
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 Posted 09/15/2017  2:15 pm  Show Profile   Check Andrew99's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Andrew99 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
More like 1/3 - 1/4, but you know my answer.
The collection is in your mind. Dispose of your albums and free your mind from the tyranny of holes.
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 Posted 09/15/2017  2:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cableguy815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is a tremendous amount of authentic very high quality coins ( US coins as well) that can be found offshore in unslabbed condition. Trust me on this I know, I purchased many.

This particular one was not offered to me. It was offered to all bidders, I just happened to win the bid.

Here is another example of a superb coin that was purchased at an incredible level (about $5,000). I did bid but this lot came after the above and spending close to 10K in a day is a bit prohibitive.


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 Posted 09/15/2017  2:24 pm  Show Profile   Check BigSilver's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BigSilver to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@cableguy815
The additional information is making this more suspicious, not less....
Nothing against you, but that whole story would worry me.
Edited by BigSilver
09/15/2017 2:24 pm
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