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New Thread/Poll: Halos Around The Edges Of Devices

 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1539 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2018  02:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alpha2814 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I think that you misunderstood what I was trying to say...


You're right. This is an area that has always confused me. On other grading threads, where the consensus is "cleaning", I often have difficulty seeing the distinction. Just when I think I get it, the next thread throws me, and there's not enough discussion regarding why we reach that conclusion.

Always a learning experience around here, and I've heard that if you ever want to know the right answer to a question, just post the wrong answer and people will jump to correct you. I seem to do a lot of that.
Working on: Indian quarter eagles, Chinese pandas, and San Francisco tokens; upgrading my Peace dollar and US Type sets

"Fear is the enemy of will. Will is what makes you take action; fear is what stops you, and makes you weak."
-- Sinestro to (my avatar) Hal Jordan, "Green Lantern" (2011)
Pillar of the Community
United States
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 Posted 02/11/2018  08:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chesterb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It just takes experience Alpha to learn the indicators of cleaning and what an original coin looks like. A common indicator are hairlines or the tiny scratches that often are in parallel. Halos are not always indicators although some have proclaimed them to be.

Here are some coins with halos that I suggest are original surfaces. Note, I took them off of one particular dealer's website because I knew I'd find examples on it. The last one has both light and dark halos.




Edited by chesterb
02/11/2018 08:16 am
Bedrock of the Community
United States
18736 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2018  09:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I really never gave this a thought. I think I always suspected those were just ghosts at the Mint.
just carl
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 Posted 02/11/2018  10:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ron6788 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The dimes raise red flags with me, chesterb. On closer inspection, if there was dirt trapped in the crevices but the surfaces were smooth and clean, I would suspect cleaning.

This is a coin of mine that was cleaned, according to the slab. There's slight darkness around the stars on the right and the profile under the chin but not much. The cleaner did a very thorough and, I think, pretty good job.

Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 02/11/2018  2:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chesterb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The dimes raise red flags with me, chesterb. On closer inspection, if there was dirt trapped in the crevices but the surfaces were smooth and clean, I would suspect cleaning


Ron, you just proved my point! While your Bust Half got a details grade according to the TPG, the dimes not only straight graded but got CAC approval as well. Just because your coin was cleaned (lightly and not sufficiently to clean out the dirt around the stars) doesn't mean that all coins with darkness around the stars are cleaned! If I posted one of those coins in the grading section, you might have raised the cleaning red flag and that's absolutely not correct. These dimes might better be described as crusty.
Bedrock of the Community
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12781 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2018  4:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The dimes raise red flags with me, chesterb. On closer inspection, if there was dirt trapped in the crevices but the surfaces were smooth and clean, I would suspect cleaning.


They shouldn't raise any flags. PCGS liked it, CAC liked it which right there is more than enough, and then Gerry Fortin has called them original as well.

The halo meaning cleaning is the numismatic version of an old wives tale.
Fire A.J. Preller
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 Posted 02/11/2018  5:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDollar2017 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
with basebal21 - it looks original to me.


Quote:
The cleaner did a very thorough and, I think, pretty good job.


The cleaner did a great job of messing up the coin. It is obviously cleaned.
Edited by SilverDollar2017
02/11/2018 5:55 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
655 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2018  10:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ron6788 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
with basebal21 - it looks original to me.


Quote:
The cleaner did a very thorough and, I think, pretty good job.


The cleaner did a great job of messing up the coin. It is obviously cleaned.


Can't say I agree at all. My half looks real good to me. Doesn't look cleaned at all IMO. The dimes do look cleaned. I would defer to the TPG that had the chance for close inspection, if they were so slabbed, but it still doesn't change the appearance.
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 02/11/2018  10:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDollar2017 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Those dimes are NOT cleaned at all. As chesterb pointed out, a better description would be "crusty" - not cleaned.
Edited by SilverDollar2017
02/11/2018 10:54 pm
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12781 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2018  11:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Doesn't look cleaned at all IMO. The dimes do look cleaned.


Like mentioned the dimes aren't. Your half looks like it is in an ANACS holder, if so they are known to slap the cleaned label on coins rather liberally. That said it looks like they got it right on yours. That doesn't mean its a junk coin or anything like that, but it does have to much detail for the surfaces to be that lifeless with that light of a color
Fire A.J. Preller
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 Posted 02/12/2018  12:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great discussion fellas. I think by the time this post has run it's course, folks around here will stop using the halo terminology to justify their 'cleaned coin' assessments. What I find interesting is that those who use it in their grading conclusions have yet to weigh-in on this thread. I think it's one of those terms that gets lazily thrown around without much reflection. You know, the 'I heard another guy say so it must be true' mentality.
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