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Post Your Kingdom Of Poland Coins By Monarch 1587 - 1795

 
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 Posted 02/06/2019  9:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice job with attributions, and nice lot!

Of these, the first is the most interesting. Catalog is Kopicki 3283(R). It was minted at the Tykocin mint in Lithuania, which only operated for a few years in the mid-1560s, so all coins from this mint are rarer than, say, the 1/2 groat coins produced in the larger Lithuanian mint in Wilno (Vilnius) in the 1550s, or the dreipolkers from the 1620s.

I have the same coin, same date, in higher grade (near EF) and paid a pretty decent amount for it.

The dreipolker is from the Bydgoszcz (Bromberg) mint according to a posting upthread by @spence who attributed it as Kopicki 860.



Edited by tdziemia
02/06/2019 9:44 pm
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 Posted 02/07/2019  07:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scopru to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
great trio Jadey
Everyday is a great day. Semper Fi.
ANA number: 3178122
NTCA number:10118
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 Posted 02/07/2019  09:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gallienus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Very interestesting 1766 copper trojak (3 groschen) tzdiemia.


Since it's equal to 1/24th of a thaler (aka 4 cents), I imagine it's a fairly heavy copper coin although silver may have been a little devalued in central Europe in the 1760's? Sadly I just lost a bid on a 1745 book on exchange rates and what currencies could buy in England, otherwise I'd have a better idea of the conversion. The weight of this piece would be interesting. It appears to be somewhat unusual and I could believe that virtunally none of these survived in very high grade?

Also I do have a question. I'm looking to buy a pair of Polish 17th century coins for the 2 sons of a good friend. Obviously thalers are out of the question but I'd like something reasonably impressive and somewhat inexpensive. They have to be of different rulers of course with readable dates in the VF range. I'm thinking orts would be good for this? I've heard mention of half thalers but those seem quite scarce. Also I could look for the smaller silver 3 or 6 groschen which go back further. As mentioned I've never suceeded in buying an ort at auction but these would be lower grades and hence less fought over. Any thoughts?

Edited by Gallienus
02/07/2019 12:09 pm
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 Posted 02/07/2019  10:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@gallienus, WCN has weekly auctions of Polish coins, and almost every week they have orts of Sigismund III, and often also similsar size coins (Tympfs or orts) of Jan Casimir and Jan Sobieski.

Their auction fee is only 5%, and postage to the U.S. is less than $10. You would probably be able to figure out the grading system, but III = VF, II = EF, I = UNC.

Prices are in zloty (PLN) currently at about 1$ = 3.5 PLN (so 100 PLN = $30, 200 PLN = $60, etc).

Here is a link to next week's auction: https://wcn.pl/eauctions/190214?cat=1.

There are also plenty of orts on eBay which might suit your purposes. But, if there will be some discussion of the source with your friend, I like the WCN approach better.
Edited by tdziemia
02/07/2019 11:00 pm
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 Posted 02/07/2019  10:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jgenn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
feel free to post Saxony coins of Friedrich Augustus!


1696 Saxony thaler, Dresden mint, Johann Koch mintmaster.

Edited by jgenn
02/07/2019 10:42 pm
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 Posted 02/08/2019  06:59 am  Show Profile   Check Jadey's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Jadey to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, that is an impressive coin.
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 Posted 02/08/2019  07:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scopru to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Beautiful coin jgenn
Everyday is a great day. Semper Fi.
ANA number: 3178122
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 Posted 02/08/2019  10:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gallienus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply



Hi tdziemia,
Thanks for the info. Actually I am familiar with WCN although their postage to the US from Poland is $50. The good news is that I've bought one 1547? 3 groschen from them at auction for $50 and they're holding it until I can form a package where the coin value is > the postage.

This type of circulated material is much better on WCN than EBay. Although in all fairness my son did a report of Douglas MacArthur in 2nd grade so I bought a beautiful PCGS-65 silver Peso of the Philippines showing MacArthur (1947-S) for ~$50 on EBay. He showed it during his report & got an "A".

I was wondering if an Ort was a good denomination for a gift? I don't want to give a recent (1932 or so) 10 Zloty.

I really need to find a listing of what denominations were made when. I just got a Gumowski but it really doesn't have info on the denominations: just line drawings. I guess Kopecki is the accepted reference?

Edited by Gallienus
02/08/2019 11:10 am
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 Posted 02/08/2019  11:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gallienus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wanted to post a bit more information about your copper trojak. According to Majewski, p64., "In 1766 in pursuance to the new mint directives, which were announced immediately on the ascention of Stanislaw August, Poland established a system of copper coins. This plan envisioned 4 types of copper coins: szelag, pol grosz, groz, & trojak."

Basis was the Cologne Pound of 467.624 g. A standard pound today is 453.592 g, so it's almost the same. From the Cologne Pound struck were:

40 trojaks or 11.6906 g ea.
120 grozy or 3 = 1 trojak
240 pol groszy or 6 = 1 trojak
360 szelags or 9 = 1 trojak

Thus your coin is about the size of a US half dollar. A US Large Cent, 1816-1857 weighed 10.89 g for comparison, although high grade specimens of the 1793-1815 issues weighed more.

Also the "reverse of the trojak" was a portrait of the King, while the lesser coins had the Coat of Arms.
Edited by Gallienus
02/08/2019 11:23 am
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 Posted 02/08/2019  1:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I was wondering if an Ort was a good denomination for a gift?


I think it's a great choice, because it's a nice large portrait coin (nearly half dollar size at the time of Sigismund III). Under Sigismund III, orts were minted at Gdansk/Danzig in the 1610s decade (Gumowski p.137), and at Bydgoszcz in the 1620s (p. 130).

Under Jan Casimir in the 1650s and 1660s (various mints, Gumowski p.149-151), though the tympfs are more plentiful (but no portrait).

Edit: As you point out, the copper trojak of Stanislaw II is also a nice sized coin, and the date is easily readable. There are dates which coincide with dates of the American Revolution, which could be another angle. And modestly priced.

Edited by tdziemia
02/09/2019 10:57 am
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 Posted 02/10/2019  5:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jgenn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Anyone who has more coins of Sigismund III, please continue to post them.


Just arrived from the recent Stephen Album auction. Sigismund III thaler. Lacking any other mintmarks that I can see, is this from the Kraków mint?

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 Posted 02/10/2019  8:38 pm  Show Profile   Check Jadey's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Jadey to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow! That is just spectacular.
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 Posted 02/10/2019  9:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Congratulations! Beautiful Sigismund thaler (and I got distracted from commenting on that nice 1696 Saxony thaler as well)

I believe this was minted at Bydgoszcz (Bromberg). The Krakow mint closed for some time beginning in 1627.
Edited by tdziemia
02/10/2019 9:30 pm
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 Posted 02/10/2019  11:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gallienus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice thaler jglenn, no problems, well struck and everything readable. Definitely Sigismond III is showing off that he's a Catholic King, although I guess they all did in back then. 1628 is almost in the center of the 30 years war (1618 - 1648). This is also known as "The counter-Refomation". I guess the sword and Holy Handgrenade of Antioch is to show that he's ready to smite the church's enemies?

Actually it's the globus cruciger (Latin for "cross-bearing orb"), only Monty Python called it the "Holy Handgrenade of Antioch".
Edited by Gallienus
02/11/2019 09:05 am
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 Posted 02/11/2019  07:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scopru to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice example jgenn
Everyday is a great day. Semper Fi.
ANA number: 3178122
NTCA number:10118
My Wants List: http://goccf.com/t/188411
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