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This Can't Be MS-61 Right?

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Nieuw's Avatar
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 Posted 09/23/2019  6:00 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Nieuw to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
This--Can't-Be-MS-61-Right?

This coin has far too many dings in my opinion
Edited by Nieuw
09/23/2019 6:04 pm
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 09/23/2019  6:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Who knows, but even if it is, they picked a pretty poor example for comparison.
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GrapeCollects's Avatar
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 Posted 09/23/2019  6:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I dunno, it could be a cruddy UNC, as long as it isn't AU, and the markings aren't enough to detail it, I have no problem with it being MS61
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basebal21's Avatar
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 Posted 09/23/2019  6:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
.This coin has far too many dings in my opinion


That's exactly what a modern 61 is. 61 and 60 especially on moderns and especially on nickels look like they got run over in the parking lot.
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moxking's Avatar
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 Posted 09/23/2019  6:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
61 is swimming at the bottom of the uncirculated pool.

Of course it's dinged to death.

A 60 barely escapes a details death sentence.
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 Posted 09/23/2019  6:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I dunno, it could be a cruddy UNC, as long as it isn't AU, and the markings aren't enough to detail it, I have no problem with it being MS61
Pretty much. IIRC, MS60 is a very rare grade those days, because coins in bad enough condition to deserve it tend to get a non-MS grade and/or a details grade.

I'm more surprised that the nickel to the right of it is MS62. I would have probably expected it to grade higher. Is it just because of the terrible strike?
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basebal21's Avatar
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 Posted 09/23/2019  7:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'm more surprised that the nickel to the right of it is MS62. I would have probably expected it to grade higher. Is it just because of the terrible strike?


There's probably some hairlines and/or poor luster on it that's hard to see in a picture
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 09/23/2019  7:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not sure I've ever seen one of these photo grading schemes for uncirculated coins that I had a lot of confidence in.
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 Posted 09/23/2019  7:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Andy Herkimer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1999 is modern, so comparing it to 1954 is the reason for the disparity.
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moxking's Avatar
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 Posted 09/23/2019  7:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Its not a terribly helpful system, although I certainly understand the attempts.
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 Posted 09/23/2019  9:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add James Hicks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No. Not nearly MS-61
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 Posted 09/23/2019  11:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nick10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've seen solid date OBW rolls of modern Jeffersons that are beat to heck with dings, big and small, so MS-61 is possible but rarely seen on a slab because who gets such a coin graded?
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panzaldi's Avatar
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 Posted 09/24/2019  10:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
if you click on it to blow it up you will see why. this coins surfaces are a mess but the coin is still MS thus the grade. just because its shiny doesn't matter. I agree they could have selected better example


This--Can't-Be-MS-61-Right?
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IndianGoldEagle's Avatar
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 Posted 09/24/2019  10:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The blow up photo shows many surface marks.
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 Posted 09/24/2019  11:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Andy Herkimer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Let me elaborate on my earlier comment. The context of the coin is the problem.

Two things in grading come into play here...

#1 You can not grade accurately with bias to the coin you have just looked at before the current coin. So if you picked up say an MS68 coin and then looked at the same year / denomination after it, you would have a natural tendency to bias your decision with a lower grade coin and reduce its grade. Imagine this, look at an MS65 grade, you will grade it unbiased at MS65. Now look at an MS68/69 grade coin, then the MS65. It will look shabby compared with the high grade coin, making it easy to under grade the coin. The same works with an MS61, the MS65 will look much nicer leading to the bias that you may over grade the coin. #2 The coins grade is also affected by the series and year.

It's kind of fascinating, like the relationship between girls beauty and beer when I was in my younger days lol. One night I was drinking with friends and we were convinced the barmaid must be a model. The following day we went back stone cold sober for lunch, it made me appreciate just how much perception can alter depending on circumstances lol.

The op picture shows three coins.

Coin 1 is a 1961 nickel, well struck, lustrous and great eye appeal, with a little wear. So AU58 is accurate.
Coin 2 is a 1999 nickel, MS with luster but that series has much lower relief and was redesigned. Looks to me like many planchet marks left over by the weaker strike rather than contact marks and not much eye appeal. So it looks low grade MS coin, so MS61 looks about right.
Coin 3 is a 1954 nickel also looks fine at MS62. Not as lustrous as the AU58, not as well struck and with less eye appeal. It does look much nicer than the 1999 MS61, but that is because the two series have different reliefs and it's a redesigned/refreshed series.

When looking at the three without taking all that into account, it looks like the 1999 is a real dawg.
Edited by Andy Herkimer
09/24/2019 12:20 pm
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Big-Kingdom's Avatar
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 Posted 10/04/2019  05:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Big-Kingdom to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not a fan of these grading systems when they compare a more modern version against older versions. That 1999 should be a 50s-60s dated nickel also. Makes me suspect they would put the 2004 or 2005 up there as examples if they needed a space filler also.
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