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Were Matte Proof Lincoln Cent Dies Used To Produce Business Strikes

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 11 / Views: 663Next Topic  
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 Posted 11/09/2021  5:02 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add LCS to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
It has always been theoretical that the mint used matte proof dies to produce business strikes. Arguments have come up from time to time some arguing for and some arguing against.

I have always contended that they did. And why wouldn't they. After they were done with the proof run, why would they let a perfectly good die go to waste?

Here is a link to some high def photos and, what I feel, is a compelling argument...

https://www.facebook.com/permalink....nt&ref=notif

Maybe Kevin could chime in on this one...
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 Posted 11/09/2021  5:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I do recall a discussion a while back about die markers from proof dies on a business strike coin. Off to search...

and to the CCF!
1883-O Nut
Edited by dave700x
11/09/2021 5:53 pm
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 Posted 11/09/2021  5:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LCS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are some pictures of 2 matte proofs. Do you notice any differences?






Edited by LCS
11/09/2021 7:30 pm
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 Posted 11/09/2021  8:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LCS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have been looking through all the PCGS pics of matte proofs. this is the only one that I could see that does not have broad flat rims.
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 Posted 11/09/2021  8:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bear in mind that proofs are not just die preparation, but also the manner of coin preparation and how the coin is struck. So being struck with proof dies may produce some characteristics of a proof, a business strike is not a proof.
Edited by jimbucks
11/09/2021 9:00 pm
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 Posted 11/09/2021  9:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LCS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Jim, nice to make your acquaintance.

"Bear in mind that proofs are not just die preparation, but also the manner of coin preparation and how the coin is struck. So being struck with proof dies may produce some characteristics of a proof, a business strike is not a proof."

I agree with your above statement. I guess the real question here is how to differentiate between an actual matte proof and a business strike struck with matte proof dies.

I believe that the only way to tell is the strike and die state. The picture of the PCGS graded coin I have posted here does not appear to have sharp, broad rims with wire rims. I find this most curious, if the picture is accurate...
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 Posted 11/10/2021  07:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Originally, proof coins were made for quality control, test and record purposes. In these circumstances, proof coins were the first coins struck from selected best quality new dies. Subsequent coins struck off them were put into circulation and the dies continued to be used until they wore out.
It is often very difficult to distinguish 19th century proof coins in pristine condition, from equivalent perfectly struck business strikes in pristine condition.

Both of these classes of coins are very rare to the modern collector anyway.

Coins struck from matte proof dies are fairly easy to identify. The best examples are be found in the 1902 British proof sets, struck specifically for the coronation of Edward V11. Lots of these coins have survived in pristine condition to the present day.
Google Images may assist you in how to visually identify them - especially the gold Five Pounds coin, which was never intended for circulation.

Now,
specially prepared polish finish dies are made to produce coins for collector market, - these coins usually sold packaged.
Modern proof dies are almost never used for subsequent business strikes.
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 Posted 11/10/2021  10:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LCS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"...Now,
specially prepared polish finish dies are made to produce coins for collector market, - these coins usually sold packaged.
Modern proof dies are almost never used for subsequent business strikes."

I think this is true because today, proof dies are used to strike thousands upon thousands upon thousands of coins. In the early 1900's US proof dies struck less than 2,000 pieces...

I for one, would LOVE to have a business strike produced by a die created to mint matte proofs...
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 Posted 11/14/2021  4:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Vxdevilsragexv to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bob? LCS I know what that stands for.
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