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Independent Confirmation - Mexico Peso?

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harrison2's Avatar
Mexico
1304 Posts
 Posted 02/01/2010  8:09 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add harrison2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I'm familiar with many of the pesos of this era...but not this one.

Can someone confirm the ID on this specimen? value?

Independent-Confirmation---Mexico-Peso???

Sorry, coin is under glass and backside is NA.

Identified - moved to World Coin forum - Sap
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 02/01/2010  8:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
harrison2 - The coin is in the style of the early "Death to Huerta" Pesos's from Durango KM # 620. It is found in the revolutionary section of most Krause books. I have noticed one or two editions that omit the section, so it is not always there.

The originals were silver but the assay varied. The weight is also non standard but they were not really tokens at this point. So the weight should be in the 25-26 gram range and an SG over 10.0 before I would accept it as original. An original is a very rare coin (personally I have never seen an original only photos) but the numismatic copies are common. Most of these forgeries date to the 1950s and 1960s. The early forgeries were rather crudely cast and lack the details of a struck original. The pictures of the originals I am familiar with leave no doubt that the original issue coin is STRUCK.

In this case, I believe you have a cast copy. There is a significant market for early counterfeits of the Muerta series. I have seen "early better mold" types bring over $100. However, personally I believe many of those hit the market as "originals" and they are fraudulent. I have not as of this date seen a struck forgery but as China enlarges their portfolio I EXPECT TO SEE ONE.

I would only buy a coin of this type which was authenticated by one of the GOOD grading services, raw is way too dangerous for this type.

As an original - this would be a $1500 to $ 2000 but the forgery is a $15 to $20 item.
Edited by swamperbob
02/01/2010 8:37 pm
Rest in Peace
COINAHOLIC's Avatar
United States
1501 Posts
 Posted 02/01/2010  8:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add COINAHOLIC to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
KM# 620 PESO Revolutionary coinage

Date Mintage VG F VF XF Unc
1914 - 1,000 2,000 3,000 5,000 -


Independent-Confirmation---Mexico-Peso???

Independent-Confirmation---Mexico-Peso???
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harrison2's Avatar
Mexico
1304 Posts
 Posted 02/01/2010  8:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add harrison2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok, that's good info about the copies...now that I look at it again, there seems to be pitting on the surface that is a sign of a cast copy.

Can you please expand on "SG over 10.0"? What does that mean?

To think...I was getting all excited!
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 02/01/2010  9:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
harrison2 - SG refers to specific gravity. This is a measure of density. Each metal has a different SG which can be determined by weighing the object in air and then in water. The difference (weight in air minus weight in water) is devided by the weight in air to get a number. Gold is 19.32, Silver 10.50, Platinum 21.45 and copper 8.96. The SG of various metalic alloys also varies so that the more copper is mixed with silver the lower the SG of the alloy.

What I meant by a SG above 10.0 was that when you have silver that is roughly alloyed for coins under crude war time circumstances - you tend to get a range of purities of silver that result in a range of Specific Gravities. Mexican coin silver 0.903 fine has a Specific Gravity of about 10.3 not the 10.5 of pure silver. So what I would be looking for is a coin with silver of 10.0 SG or HIGHER. White metal alloys with nickel and copper are often in the 8.9 range.
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harrison2's Avatar
Mexico
1304 Posts
 Posted 02/01/2010  10:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add harrison2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ah yes, the "SG" abbreviation threw me off...thank you for the clarification.
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harrison2's Avatar
Mexico
1304 Posts
 Posted 02/01/2010  11:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add harrison2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For posterity stake...I'll post a photo taken with a flash that shows it's surface even better.

Independent-Confirmation---Mexico-Peso???
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