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Toning Alters Coins Surface

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Valued Member
The_Cave_Troll's Avatar
United States
218 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2005  9:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add The_Cave_Troll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Metalmanno coin goes unscathed by the environment!! where would the line be drawn ?



this is a good point, especially since toning is the natural evolution of silver in the atmosphere.

Here is my solution, I don't collect blast white OR MS toned coins, it's circulated for me! lol
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Metalman's Avatar
United States
7123 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2005  9:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by OldDan

Metalman...If you like toned coins then by all means buy them for your collection. I have no desire or intention of impuning anybodys sacred cow.

I would however admit that both Cave Troll and Mike hava taken the information as intended as I hope you will.



Old Dan

Im not sure why you would want to make the assumption that toned coins are a sacred cow to me LOL and just because I went another direction with the information does not mean I didnt understand it!!

Toned coins have been accepted and graded long before I ever came to the game!!

Rick
Valued Member
The_Cave_Troll's Avatar
United States
218 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2005  10:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add The_Cave_Troll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
metalman would you please translate your sig. I have been trying to figure it out for months.
Thanks
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Metalman's Avatar
United States
7123 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2005  11:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sure thing Cave Troll

its a clan motto(Scottish) it goes with the Crest Badge that is in my avitar, in its usage for the badge it is a warning .

In my usage of it as a sig line, it is an announcement to the forums , of my Clan Heritage ,in hopes of finding others, either Clan or Septs !!

Rick

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ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2005  05:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by toast

What is a thiourea dip?

I have heard of Ageka's method of restoring the silver with the use of aluminium foil and
hot salted water but have never tried it. This may reduce the weight loss but what does the coin look like afterward?



Thiourea is the name of a chemicall formula like acetone and table salt and sugar are names for chemical formulas
It is often used together with Phosporic Acid by jewellers mostly in ultrasonic cleaning and then are added some kind of soaps they call surface tension reducers

The aluminium foil will render silversulfide back to silver state
So your coin should weight exactly the same as BEFORE it was oxidised
However since this newly formed silver was not stamped by a mould it will have a different porosity and density and if the damage was too thick this will result in a grayisch looking spot

The principle of alu and silver is the same as putting zinc plates on ships ; the zinc corrodes and protects the iron ships
When one metal is in contact with another one will allways be noble and protected by the other depending which is higher on the list of
metals
Valued Member
Stujoe's Avatar
United States
421 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2005  07:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Stujoe to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by OldDan

If you will go back and check, you will find this isn't a one ounce silver round, but a silver quarter that these measurements are taken from.



I know. I was just relate the incredibly small amount of silver to something tangible.
Valued Member
Stujoe's Avatar
United States
421 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2005  07:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Stujoe to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Metalman
I believe that it is a scientific attempt to cause toned coins to no longer be accepted and gradedable as mint state coins , nothing more nothing less !!



If that is the intent of the original author, then he should realize that there are many, many untoned coins that would fall out of the MS range as they have been dipped to make them Artificially White. . There are probably more Artificially White coins out there than there are toned coins. How many gallons of dip are sold each year?
Edited by Stujoe
07/02/2005 07:47 am
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ageka's Avatar
Belgium
2078 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2005  08:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ageka to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And I guess there are as many recipees to retone coins as there are to clean coins
Valued Member
Stujoe's Avatar
United States
421 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2005  11:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Stujoe to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Probably many more recipes to retone them. The only recipe you need to Artifically Whiten one is a bit of a dip and a second or two.
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longnine009's Avatar
United States
1247 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2005  6:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add longnine009 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
He doen't say what happens if you just let the coin be. I'd like to know if the toning itself does not become a sheild against the stuff that caused it to tone in the first place.

Edited by longnine009
07/03/2005 6:17 pm
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Metalman's Avatar
United States
7123 Posts
 Posted 07/03/2005  6:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Longnine

There is a pretty informative thread on the subject over in CU,, that has what seems like some pretty good info on your question.

I have my own opinions on why that info was not included !!!

Rick
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longnine009's Avatar
United States
1247 Posts
 Posted 07/04/2005  6:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add longnine009 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Metalman. There is at least one poster that does believe that.

Coin collecting is becoming a pharmaceutical commercial--"Why don't know you may be suffering from pre reflux toe nail rot. You should speak to your doctor."

And of course all our urgent "problems" as coin collectors can be solved by "the professionals."

Ode to circulated, well toned
and unclean wretches:

"I am the passenger and I ride and I ride
I ride through the city's backsides..."

Passenger--Iggy Pop
Edited by longnine009
07/04/2005 6:47 pm
New Member
United States
8 Posts
 Posted 07/08/2005  03:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JDW to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As a collector of toned coins, I read Weimar White's guest commentary in Coin World with great interest and I think he makes a couple of interesting points. But, I think he also makes the same leap of faith that many collectors of perfect white coins do, that Intercept Shield products are the answer to the very real possibility that the environment will change the surface of their coins after they leave the Mint. Only time will tell. I would think that with Mr. White’s professional background, he would realize that it is the nature of man-made metals to change state. Steel rusts, aluminum corrodes, copper darkens and silver oxidizes, and unless you live in an area with very low humidity or have taken measures to control the storage environment you stand a very good chance of being disappointed.

Mr. White makes a very good argument that toning is damage, but something that bothers me more than whether or not to call toned coins damaged is the “coin doctors” that try to imitate not only toning, but also attempt to make a coin appear as though it just came out of the Mint. In both instances, the “coin doctor” is practicing deception and collectors are the losers because it all comes down to money; you have it, they want it.

I also have to wonder. Is anyone really concerned about the loss of a couple hundred micrograms of silver? I don’t think so. Will Mr. White’s scientific proof that toning is damage change the collecting preferences of many collectors? Again, I don’t think so. I don’t see it changing many collecting habits whatsoever. Unless you are trying to collect coins like some folks play the stock market, when all is said and done, it still boils down to collect what you like. You should become educated about what you want to collect, but it really matters little what anyone else thinks of your collection. It only has to please one person, you.

One forum member doesn't think that a toned coin could possibly be mint state. Why not? I've got quite a few Jefferson nickels that were taken from ‘60s Uncirculated Mint Sets that are nicely toned. Many long time collectors and a few dealers I’ve spoken with feel that it’s impurities such as trace amounts cobalt in the raw nickel that the blanks are made from that has caused the Jefferson nickel to turn various shades of dark blue.
I also received an Uncirculated Mint Set from a friend that contained an extremely toned Washington quarter and I removed it from the sealed packaging myself. The Mint package contained no holes and none of the coins surrounding the quarter were toned, yet the quarter was purple with gold specks and looks like it had been washed, but not rinsed properly. In these cases, the coins came out of Mint sealed packages so why wouldn’t they qualify as Mint State? The “Official ANA Grading Standards for United States” Coins states, “The term “Uncirculated” interchangeable with “Mint State” refers to a coin which has never seen circulation.” This does not mean that every toned coin is Mint State any more than it means every blast white coins is, but it does mean that they certainly can be.

In summary, I think that Mr. White makes some fine points and I will even concede that some collectors will agree that toned coins are damaged. But, I doubt that those collectors ever bothered with that facet of the hobby in the first place. I witnessed the popularity of collecting toned coins come and go over the last 45 years that I’ve been collecting and while it’s currently in an accepted phase, it will likely revert one of these days.

I was also amused that one forum member’s solution was not to collect toned or blast white coins. Whatever works for you. I don’t care much for anything produced after 1964 and consider it “junk metal” coins probable because I grew up with the sound of silver jingling in my pant pockets so I guess we all have a different way of looking at things.
Edited by JDW
07/08/2005 03:11 am
Pillar of the Community
longnine009's Avatar
United States
1247 Posts
 Posted 07/08/2005  08:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add longnine009 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hey JD do you still have the link to your black beauty nickel?
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toast's Avatar
Australia
1091 Posts
 Posted 07/08/2005  10:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add toast to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi JDW, If they gave prizes for the best first post, yours would win. That is an excellent post and I learned lots. Thanks.
Welcome to the forum and I will look forward to more of your posts.
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