What Is Your Preference As A Collector....

I collect some notes but I'm a coin man over all. I love to buy graded coins; PCGS, NGC, ANACS. The stuff I buy has a lot of fakes out there. Then again, they are now making fake graded coins. It's so sad that this is being done. It sure puts a black cloud over our hobby.

"I would say that if you are a newbie I would STRONGLY RECOMMEND"
No argument. But more that a few of us have collected 20, 30, 50 years. We have learned how to grade those coins in which we specialize. We have had dealers solicit OUR opinions as to a grade. Frankly, we do not need third party grading.
However, it it makes you more secure then buy graded.

Bill Collector,
I totally understand what you are saying. There are far too many people who take the writing on the slab as the end all be all. Like they saying in coin collecting "buy the coin not the slab" and that applies just as much in paper money collecting. Like I said in my first post in this thread, I've seen plenty of mistakes made by the big TPGs like: tears flat out missed, multiple pinholes on a high AUs or UNC notes that went un-commented on, repairs missed, 60-64s with centerfolds, and AUs that are really XFs with 2 nicely pressed out (though still visible) side folds. The list goes on forever and if you are buying these notes without knowing what to look for or how to properly grade you'll do poorly in the hobby. Not to mention the bevy of cases where notes are simply over-graded and not worth the money, and that's a judgement you can't make if you can't grade. This also goes the other way and many deals can be found on material that is under-graded.

I never intended to imply that grading wasn't important or that you can get by without knowledge of grading by simply buying notes in slabs. I simply feel as though the marketability of notes is enhanced for notes in slabs, and that is just my opinion I don't mean to offend anyone by saying that. Would you rather own a slabbed 65 thats over-graded or a slabbed 64 thats under-graded? Without proper grading knowledge these kind of determinations can't be made and with subtle differences like these there are sometimes hundreds of dollars at stake that can be lost, or hundreds of dollars of value that can be gained by knowing how to properly assess a note.

As far as those notes you posted: the $20 is tough for me as there is lack of much of the soiling you see on notes that tend to have these kind of issues, and I don't see a strong centerfold, like I would expect for a note of this character. Actually, considering the brutal condition there aren't nearly as many folds as I would expect. The condition of this note with its many rips, missing pieces, staining, and adhesive looks like something you'd see on notes that grade 4 or lower. However, the notes are supposed to be graded by assigning a grade based on the condition of the note without the problems, of which there are many. So with all that in mind I'd give it a F 15 Apparent/Net grade with the many problems listed. If I was in the market for such a note I'd place its value around a VG 8.
The photo quality on the 1,000 isn't as good so it makes it a bit harder to determine so please give me some leeway on this. Once again, I don't see a strong centerfold but soiling is present all over the note, not to mention the missing pieces. I would guess that it is around a VG 8 Apparent/Net with the missing pieces notated and perhaps a small center tear. Now I gotta know...what did they actually grade out as?

I would of course consider slabbed notes if they were to enter into my long-term collection. They look better in showcases anyways.

Personally, my dealer is a pretty good grader and I trust him. I've only disagreed with him maybe once.

Slabs, though, make me feel better about the storage of my banknotes. I can't just plop my notes anywhere I please - they have to be isolated and not in direct contact with elements and everything else.

Very well put Jimjumper, I have never had a problem buying or selling off any of my raw duplicate notes that I up graded. Like you the only reason I bought that graded $ 10. FRN was because it was a note I needed to fill a hole in my collection and it was only $ 15. with a note like that I don't care if it was a 63 or a 64 because the value would probably never be more than what I paid for it, at least not in my life time.

When you start sticking your nose into the grading business of the TPG's you will be surprised at what you find out. There seems to be a lot of "on the job training" going on and not much checking going on before it gets sent out the door, and you can see that with a lot of the notes that have been graded. One collector that I talked with said that to prove his point he would ask if he could have the same grader grade a few notes that did it for him last time, twice he was told that they couldn't do that because that grader was no longer working there.

One other problem is that none of the TPG's seem to have the same set of grading standards and none of them can agree on what constitutes a grade.

I'm surprised that more collectors haven't tried to grade the notes I up loaded. I'll show the notes in the holders later tonight, some may be surprised then again maybe not.
Bill Collector

"An about good 3 note will typically be extremely worn and may be missing small pieces. If any major damage is evident or there are significant portions of the note missing, a lower grade will be in order" - PCGSCCURRENCY.COM

Using that quote from the PCGS grading standards as a guideline I would guess that the $20 graded FR-2 and the $1000 AG-3. But I'll be interested in what the experts graded them.

Domain,
Coin grading by TPGs is deplorable. IMO, its much worse than some of the sorry stuff you see in TPG paper money holders. But that could possibly just be due to the fact that the average coin show in my parts would consist of 10 coin dealers for every 1 paper money dealer and all the coin dealers have much more material to sell than the average paper money dealer, so there just so much more material I see that doesn't fit the bill. The most consistent grading was when these companies were new. Now with grading what used to be a 64 is a 65 and what used to be a 53 is many times a 58. And that's just from grade leeching, it has nothing to do with the amount of coins that just don't deserve the grade. Quick story: I saw a 1865 CC Morgan that was over half black about 2 weeks ago. I know the dealer a little bit and I asked him about it and he said he sent it in himself and paid XF pricing on it. The coin was definetly UNC but more like a 60-62 grade, with a shot at a 63 if it hit the right graders table. Some guy who knows too little will eventually pick that thing up from him for a substantial premium over its actual value. For reasons like this, I like the idea of CAC to help out those who are unsure about grading, especially on coins that aren't in their expertise wheelhouse, but at the same time its now so ridiculously bad in the market that we now have a TPG to give us their opinions on slabbed TPG work. Where does the madness end?

Well,
Here they are, both graded by the same Co. as V. F. For me that's un-believable, and what's even more un-believable is that there's more out there just as bad. The guys here that graded them in the GOOD category I think were being generous. Would anyone on this forum actually buy these notes at V. F. prices and be proud to have them in there collection. Not me.
Bill Collector