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 Replies: 52 / Views: 3,942 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
quote:
I own a business... a couple of loss leaders
doesn't hurt a thing if you are netting profit.
You may own a business but I guarantee it is nothing like the US Mint(which is not a business BTW). The US Mint is the sole producer of a product that everyone in the US absolutely needs to use and its mission is to produce that product in the most efficient and cost effective manner possible. Are you seriously suggesting that the US Mint use the cent and nickel as "loss leaders"? You do that to bring people into your store so you can also sell them other products with higher margins. The US Mint does not work that way because it is not a business. They do turn a profit on seniorage and numismatic sales and that profit is returned to the US Treasury but their ultimate goal is not making profits, it is to produce US coinage and the profit just happens to be a byproduct of that. Coinage is not a product that you have to entice people to buy like overpriced, mass produced junk in a store- it is the currency of the nation. Losing money producing coinage is something that should be avoided at all costs because it is just plain unnecessary. sfwusc said it best a couple posts ago quote:
It makes the U.S. government look stupid. They do a lot of stupid things, but this one just screams -- we are stupid.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1208 Posts |
quote:
...their ultimate goal is not making profits
 That's funny. You think anyone here really believes that?!? Just look at everything they do! It's all about fleecing the sheeple for them. They do an exorbitant amount of commems and superfluous coinage just because they know folks will take them out of circulation at face value. Netting them huge sums of profit. It is almost shameful the way they do it. As for the coin compositions, I firmly believe that coins should cost what they are worth! Yes, the cent shouldn't cost 1.2 cents, but on the same note, the dollar should not cost 8 cents either! The people are not getting their money's worth that way. That is why coins were made of copper, silver, and gold. When you held money in your hands, you held value. They have taken that away from us, and sheeple think that is okay. Power to the sheeple.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
632 Posts |
quote:
As for the coin compositions, I firmly believe that coins should cost what they are worth! Yes, the cent shouldn't cost 1.2 cents, but on the same note, the dollar should not cost 8
cents either! The people are not getting their money's worth that way. That is why coins were made of copper, silver, and gold. When you held money in your hands, you held value.
They have taken that away from us, and sheeple
think that is okay.
Sheeple? Now, I am only 19, average intelligence, but there are a bunch of things I can point out to be wrong with that statement. Inflation and market values for metals change hourly. You are not going to be able to make a one dollar coin out of one dollar's worth of metal and have it stay that way. Our monatary system is the fiat system meaning our money's value is backed up by the government. So a penny is always going to be worth a penny, a dime is always going to be worth a dime. Theres security in that sort of system of the value of your money. Not necessarily the buying power, but a coins face value will remain constant. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1208 Posts |
Well, I am not insinutating you are not intelligent,
just that you haven't been alive to experience the
"gold standard". It meant that our money was NOT
just backed by the government like you point out.
The money was backed by precious metals, either on
deposit by the government, or in the coin itself.
You had value at all times.
Now, your statement about the coin always being worth
a set amount... That is a statement of a sheeple in
training! NO, your money is not worth the same. It
is in a constant and neverending state of decline.
It's called inflation. When the government does not
back it's currency with something of value, it has
no restraints on how much it prints/mints. This
is the cause of inflation and devalueation.
There is nowhere for the value of the currency to go
but DOWN. Without backing, the value of the currency
will never stay the same, and will definately NEVER
increase.
Never in history, has a currency without backing, not
experienced constant inflation/devalueation, and
evenutally hyperinflation. We are on that road.
Folks that don't remember when currency was backed,
are doomed to believe the government 'all powerful'
can just magically keep their monetary system constant.
Can't and won't happen.
The money has to be based on something other than the
word of politicians. Learn that now.
The folks that say "our coin compositions should change
to cheaper metals" are either defeatest and succumb to
the idea that money will always devalue, or they are
ignorant to the idea behind currency to hold value, or
at least be backed by a tangible commodity.
Think about it this way:
In ancient Rome, an ounce of gold would dress a man
in the finest clothing availble at the time. Maybe
a fine silken toga, crafted leather sandals, a nice
sash, and maybe a little window trim like bracelets
or something. One ounce of gold, valued enough to buy
one nice outfit.
In the old west... an ounce of gold was maybe $25-30,
based on the wieght of a double eagle. How much do you
think it cost to buy a nice set of 'duds' back then.
About an ounce of gold is how much.
Today. A nice suit, tie, jacket... Not the cheap stuff,
but not extravagant. Good quality shoes, a quality shirt,
maybe some cuff links or a tie-tack. You look good, and
what did it cost? About the value of an ounce of gold.
That is the gold standard.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1208 Posts |
I also should point out that not only did the
politicians steal the value of our currency from
the people, but they then cleaned out the
gold depository since the gold no longer had any
legal ties to remain on deposit! They got us on
the front and the back!
Our country worked hard, sacrificed so much, and
built that value. One swipe of Nixon's pen ended
our country's stability... A process begun by FDR.
The name of the game for the government is "increments".
And it works! They change citizens to sheeple one
little change at a time. Every generation buys into
just a touch more than the last.
It's not the 19 year old's fault, at all.
It is the increments set before that set him a little
further 'down that road' than the previous generation.
Think about all the big changes...
The ones attempted fast, like Hillary's healthcare,
1990-something, fall on their face.
The ones done incrementally, down a slippery slope,
get done. Folks used to have to actually work for
income! At 19, you know that if you don't want to
work, welfare to the rescue. Not inferring that is
YOU, just pointing out that you know this to be
true and accept it as something normal and constant.
Well, it's not normal. Folks used to have to work
for income, or they'd starve. Hard truths, not
handouts.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1840 Posts |
Ratio411 - I think your missing the point here. Last year in India there was a huge shortage of coins. Due to melt values that were significantly higher than their face value, Rupees were being smuggled out of the country to Bangladesh. There they were being melted down to make razor blades. The shortage became so bad that stores started making cardboard Rupees for local trade. Granted the melt-to-face-value ratio was about 30:1, it does demonstrate why the issue needs to be addressed. But it's all a moot point anyway. We all know the government can't change the composition of the penny. It's all part of that conspiracy involving extraterrestrials working in tandem with the RAND Corporation to exercise mind control over us sheeple.  Editted for bad speling
Edited by snowman
05/08/2008 8:06 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
632 Posts |
Ratio:
The intelligence statement was to establish that I am just a kid with limited knowledge, plus an ameteur coin collector. I knew you weren't insinuating, its cool.
You and me really are saying a lot of the same things. They buying power of money is always going down due to inflation, and inflation is caused by the change of the money supply. A dime is always going to be worth ten cents, but 10 cents will progressively purchase less and less. This is caused by the money supply. The more money in circulation, the less its worth. But how would adjusting the value of coins to their metallic value solve this? If the economy fails tommorow then yeah, our money will be worthless. But if our money was backed buy gold then the money would still be worthless because the precious metals index would fail with everything else.
Our money has value because the government 'says' it does. Why is that a bad thing. As far as I see it it is just as secure as relying on gold (if money was backed by gold) to hold onto its own value.
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Valued Member
United States
76 Posts |
If our money were backed by something tangible (gold), then the government would have a constraint on how much it produced. It would have to have a certain amount in its possession before it could print the paper. That would affect inflation dramatically. This is currently a mute point. It will not happen with our current structure. The FED is in control for now. On the other hand, the 'value' of gold is not contingent upon our nation's economy. It is in limited supply, and therefore has a relative value of its own. When our dollar collapses, the value of gold will go on.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1208 Posts |
quote:
If our money were backed by something tangible (gold), then the
government would have a constraint on how much it produced.
Bingo! We have a winner... The unconstrained, willy-nilly printing of currency is the reason for inflation and devaluation. Inflation is a rare occurrence when the money is backed by a stable commodity/commodities. The malady is far less common, happens only in short bursts, and ultimately money is not devalued when it's over. Constraints on government is required, however, it is converse to what politicians/bureaucrats want! That is why the gold standard is gone. It was a big change, done incrementally, and was an increment in seizing power from the people. Now, did some people sit down 80 years ago and plan this all out? NO. It is just a natural progression of power corrupting people. Some increments are well thought out, but as a whole, there is no conspiracy. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
615 Posts |
Actually deflation is very common with asset backed currency. Production increases are higher than increase supply of money. This causes a deflationary environment.
The Fiat system is actually better for the economy. It keeps cash from being hoarded. This allows assets to trade more freely and loss be recorded by the true business environment vs. liquidity crunch. The system doesn't want cash to hold its value, and that is why inflation is targeted at 1-2% (around the wanted rate)
The small goverment part of me hates it though because it is a very bad control on government spending.
-SWUSC
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Pillar of the Community
United States
615 Posts |
It actually doesn't really matter if the federal reserve prints money or not. The U.S. government issuing treasuries for the increasing national debt is the real problem. Most of people's cash is not really cash. It is in money market funds, which own a lot of U.S. Treasurires.
The last deflationary threat on the U.S. happen after the U.S. government started running budget surpluses in the late 1990s.
Congress wants to blame the Federal Reserve. It is Congress's fault. The Federal Reserve only changes U.S. Treasuries to Federal Reserve Notes by printing notes and buying Treasuries with them. The creation of Treasuries is from Congress spending more than they tax.
The Federal Reserve system isn't the problem. Congress is the problem. No increase in national debt and the money supply becomes 0% growth, which is deflationary.
-SWUSC
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1208 Posts |
I rue the day, but I believe that in my lifetime they will
demonetize the dollar and go with a "New dollar" to take up
the slack from inflation and to kill really good counterfeit
currency.
Can't wait for that. :sarcasm:
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Pillar of the Community
United States
615 Posts |
For all the gold standard folks:
Don't you think it is kind of pointless to take all the gold, silver, and whatever metals out of the economy and use them for money?
Metal can't be used to make computers, rings, necklaces, and other items and be coined into money too.
Money is designed to be a medium of exchange. I have not had any trouble exchanging money/FRN for goods to date. Is their inflation, yes. Does high inflation hurt people, yes. If inflation is greater than wage increases then people lose. Holders of cash lose too. The system wants them to lose. They should lose. They hoarded a medium of exchange and not an investment/hard asset/tangible good.
Low inflation is a tax on holders of cash. It is a good tax because holding cash hurts the economy. If the inflation rate is to high, then it hurts everyone and the economy.
Deflation is awful. It rewards holders of cash, and makes people want to hoard it. See above about cash being hoard hurting the economy.
I actually think the current system is pretty good assuming Congress isn't full of idiots. The problem is Congress is usually full of idiots. Asset backed system is "congress full of idiots proof", but isn't the best system for the economy. We need to stop electing idiots.
-SFWUSC
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2269 Posts |
Unfortunately I missed good old Shepard Smith's piece. Lately all I keep hearing about on the news is how the mint spends more money to make a penny and a nickel. If the media needed a new story, why don't they focus on the dollar bill.
Almost every country has eliminated the dollar bill and saved millions of dollars each year. Instead the mint is wasting more money by making millions of dollar coins that will almost never circulate.
I don't understand why Shepard Smith and others have yet to touch that subject.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
615 Posts |
Good question on the dollar bill. The average life of a dollar bill is like 18 months, right. At 6 cents a bill that is 4% a year cost to maintain a dollar bill.... I guess since they don't pay interest on that part of the national debt it is a wash.
-SFWUSC
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Replies: 52 / Views: 3,942 |
First Page
Posted 05/08/2008 6:34 pm
