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 Replies: 29 / Views: 5,588 |
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Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts |
It would be quite an interesting scenario if the coin was a "1909vdb", the counterfeiter wanted it as a "1909-s vdb", and the dealer sold it to you as a "1909-s"
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1934 Posts |
Okay; we're ready for pics of the reverse
Cleaning...there are these very fine-pointed plastic teeth cleaners (picks) I use to remove gunk from around dates and MMs. They do absolutely no damage to the coin. They are in the dental floss section of stores.
The first thing I would do with this coin is try and remove the gunk from around the MM. If it will not pry away, it's probably b.s. (been soldered), tampered with.
:)
Edited by j_h_s
04/05/2010 07:58 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8904 Posts |
IMO, the mint mark looks exactly like the #4 obverse example...  |
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Valued Member
 United States
149 Posts |
Sorry, I have been gone for a couple days. I knew the pics wouldn't be much help which is why I was hoping this coin can be authenticated by the obverse only (such as the 94-P and 93-S Morgan. With that die chip in the S, I am confident the mintmark has not been added. I did show this to a dealer today and after inspecting, he does believe it to be a genuine S-VDB but strongly urged authentication by a TPG (as I already knew... it would be impossible to sell raw). He also stated this was by far the weakest S VDB he has ever seen. Here are the reverse pics. I rotated the coin 90° for each pic     Here you can see a little something going on down there. If anyone is able to do some messing around in photoshop to show this better, please feel free. I am 100% confident that there is a VDB down there. In the right light and angle without a glass, you can see the 3 letters.    So one of these days I will get around to having it authenticated... hopefully sooner than later! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1659 Posts |
I played with these pics in Photoshop every way I could think of. I couldn't get any letters to become evident. Although I will admit I'm not a Photoshop guru. :-)
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
From the pics provided, that is not an S-VDB. Weak VDB is a different thing entirely. That coin could qualify for INVISIBLE VDB!
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Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
On the second photo at 200% magnifacation I see what might be a V. But on the other photos I see only marks from circulation. I hope I'm wrong, but the reverse does not prove to me that this is a 1909-SVDB
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1934 Posts |
I'm no expert; after looking at the pictures of your cent's "S" and the examples of (other) genuine SVDBs in this thread, and looking at
many other images online, your "S" is the only one with the "S" so far due south of the "0" that, were it any more east, its position would be SSE.
I did not find a single image on line with the 09 SVDB "S" less than SSW/due south of the "0"
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Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts |
Wow, I have no idea. I agree with others that I can make out what could be remnants of a "v.d.b.", but it could just as easily be tiny nicks or variations of color. However, pictures don't compare with an in-hand view of the coin. If it were just you, we might tell you that you have a great imagination  , but if the dealer saw it too; well maybe, just maybe you discovered a new variety, and the TPG will label it " 1909-s microscopic vdb"  It is definitely very very weak....but I still hold out some hope for this coin. |
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Valued Member
United States
149 Posts |
Ha, I know it's tough and that's why I was hoping it was able to determine it without reverse pics.
As I said earlier, any sort of magnification washes out the letters. But in the right light you can see it a lot better.
I know I would not want an example like this as an S VDB which is why it will be gone as soon as I get it back, even for a couple hundred bucks.
I am going to send it in the beginning of next week and I will post the results when I get it back.
And "Microscopic" wouldn't be right... maybe "Farsighted VDB" would be more accurate, as the further away it gets the more clear it becomes? haha
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Valued Member
United States
149 Posts |
Thought I'd give an update... I took this to a variety expert today. He said the S is definitely legit. He said the VDB is definitely there. It is very weak but all letter can be seen in the right light. When they decided to get rid of the VDB, they polished the VDB away from the working dies. Although they thought they had got rid of it all, some of the VDB remained. Which is what we have here. There were rumors of someone find a 1910-VDB Here is an interesting read: http://www.scvhistory.com/scvhistor...r051008.htmlSo now I guess it depends on a TPG certifying it as a weak VDB. I'll probably just take it to a larger show with me and speaking with one of the TPG's about it. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts |
Quote:
When they decided to get rid of the VDB, they polished the VDB away from the working dies. Although they thought they had got rid of it all, some of the VDB remained. Interesting. So in reality, it seems to me it would be a "1909-s" variety, right? If they minted the coin expecting the vdb to be removed then I would assume that this coin is counted in the mintage of the 1909-s(1,825,000), as opposed to the 1909-s vdb mintage of (484,000)? Not that it wouldnt be slabbed as a weak vdb, but it wasn't meant to be a 1909-s vdb. The second case I have also heard is that 1909-s weak vdbs also occur when the die is clogged, and in this case it would still be a 1909-s vdb as it was intended. I'm just hypothesizing here, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...... Edited by johnny54321
04/17/2010 4:31 pm
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Valued Member
United States
149 Posts |
I do believe that to be correct. Unless of course the mintmark position is correct of the 4. Then it would be nearly impossible to determine if it was minted as a 09-S or as an 09-S VDB. Because then the VDB may have been filled in with grease or something...
I actually have two of these, the one pictured being the weaker of the two. But I showed them to a couple more dealers at the coin show today here in Columbus and they both said yes, but get'um slabbed!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8904 Posts |
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Replies: 29 / Views: 5,588 |
First Page
Posted 04/05/2010 07:56 am
