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 Replies: 425 / Views: 38,404 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2408 Posts |
I could not find any specific law that forces a financial institution to accept NCLT. But from my research; Legal Tender is a tender of payment of money if it is made with coins issued by the Royal Canadian Mint. Legal tender is an offered payment that, by law, cannot be refused in settlement of a debt (...) personal cheques, credit cards, debit cards and similar non-cash methods of payment are not usually legal tender. However, retailers (and banks?) in Canada may refuse bank notes (and coins?) without breaking the law if they feel that would put them at risk of being counterfeit victims. I presume that if a merchant or bank teller does not recognize the coin then there would be sufficient grounds to refuse the coin without any legal ramification. ------------------- References: http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/C-52/...13=50#idhit1http://www.tititudorancea.com/z/legal_tender.htmEdited by canadian_coins
01/29/2011 4:40 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
598 Posts |
Quote:
I checked and my credit card was charged an even 200$. I don't understand the claims that tax is being charged. I was not charged tax.
NickleHalfDime
^^^ I 'spose it depends on what province you live in. Are these pieces produced in Winnipeg? Then Manitobans would be subject to PST but not GST. Don't quote me on that, but I know the taxation ins and outs for Ontario. >>> edit... Here's something I posted elsewhere awhile back VVV. In Ontario Canada, I use to have to pay GST(5%) and PST(8%) (goods&services and provincial taxes) on less than pure bullion when imported into Canada. Pure bullion being .999 fine was exempt from PST but subject to GST. If I purchased from a registered business within Ontario pure bullion would be subject to PST and exempt from GST... the opposite of an international purchase. So, if I purchased from anywhere else in Canada, or from a private sale in Ontario, there would be no taxes applied. But now (go figure), Ontario has HST(Harmonized sales tax or PST & GST combined), so I lost any exemption internationally or from Ontario. But, I can still purchase within Canada from anywhere but Ontario, or privately within Ontario, and not hafta pay any taxes. Edited by IBGolden
01/29/2011 4:55 pm
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Valued Member
 Canada
322 Posts |
Nicklehalfdime...when I ordered on the web site...it shows a tax amount...but I'm sure when the Mint chg's my card it will be with no tax...cause all the emails from the mint have said tax free...
Edited by Koin Hunter
01/29/2011 4:50 pm
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Valued Member
Canada
94 Posts |
Thanks for the info guys. I ordered by phone so that's probably why I never saw taxes being charged.
I live in Quebec by the way. No HST here.
Oh and for the record: I believe the coins are being produced in Ottawa. All NCLT comes from the Ottawa branch, right?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
4227 Posts |
I'm not trying to rain on any parades here, but below is a response from a RCM rep regarding NCLT. I'm just quoting this to make certain people are clear on NCLT coins, as they cannot be redeemed at banks for face value or spent in stores. In my opinion though, if a coin has $20 on it, you'd likely be able to find someone at some point who would give you "face" value for it, especially with the silver content, even if it's only around $7 worth at the moment. Quote:Thank you for contacting the Royal Canadian Mint. With regards to your request, please note that our numismatic coins cannot be redeemed at a financial institution for their face value. Our numismatic coins are considered Non Circulating Legal Tender. The face value of our coins are symbolic and are not an indicator of the true value of a coin. If you have any further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us at 1-800-267-1871 or at our web site http://www.mint.ca/contactusSincerely, Eric Riley Customer Service Representative/Représentant du service à la clientèle Royal Canadian Mint/Monnaie royale canadienne |
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Valued Member
Canada
276 Posts |
... sounds strange that you'd be unable to redeem official currency for face value though, chequer.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
4227 Posts |
That's the unfortunate (depending upon your outlook) point. NCLT stands for non-circulating legal tender and since it's non-circulating, the legal standing for the coins is that the value is symbolic (as said in the response from the RCM) and not redeemable. When the value of silver was really low some years ago, the Mint took some flack when the public started trying to cash in their '76 Olympic coins for face and found out that they couldn't. |
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Valued Member
Canada
94 Posts |
Yeah, especially when just the other day I was told by a bank teller that the bank redeemed the 10$ silver Montreal Olympic coins for 10$ from some guy who didn't know the coins had more than 10$ in silver composition.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2408 Posts |
Chequer,
Thank you for posting this. When did Eric respond to your question?
This seems contradictory to the Currency Act (R.S., 1985, c. C-52) and inconsistent with reality. The reality is that they are redeemed for face value. I've gotten many of them in the past, at face value. True, financial institutions have rejected them(ref. Montreal Olympic Coins). However, the Mint upheld their legitimate face value when silver dropped in the 90s. I remember the debate.
I am verifying with the Mint on this and will update.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
4227 Posts |
In NickleHalfDime's example, the coin(s) would be taken home by the teller, another employee, or a customer as they cannot be returned. That was the teller's error, but not one that would concern the bank as they would not have a problem finding someone to take the coin given the current price of silver.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
4227 Posts |
Good idea, Canadian Coins. I look forward to hearing what you find out. My response from Eric was in May of 2010.
Oh, yes, it was that exact debate that made me think of this. If I remember correctly, after that kerfuffle, the mint agreed to take back previous coins, but amendments were made to make certain they'd never have to do so again.
Edited by chequer
01/29/2011 6:43 pm
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Valued Member
423 Posts |
canadian_coins: I think the act says it all, but for sure I want to hear the RCM's take on it. They should change their webpage. It seems to be a HUGE contradiction. Even the marketing of this coin would be in HUGE contradiction and could easily be argued as a reason for refund. I think the Act is the Act and banks must follow it. Stores might be a bit of a problem, but the banks would have to for sure. Not accepting a fake $20 bill is a different issue I believe. I know my local bank does take NCLT's at face only. I know a teller and buy them from her at face. Doesn't happen often but once in a while she will say she has some coins for me when in go in. I paid no tax in Ontario. I made sure to ask. The lady said no. I would be charged $60 for 3 coins (that was all she said I could get without being a member). Edited by realpenny
01/29/2011 6:59 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2408 Posts |
I will Chequer.
Besides, his comment: "The face value of our coins are symbolic and are not an indicator of the true value of a coin."
Was irrelevant to the subject matter. The true value of a coin is the price someone else is willing to pay for...
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Valued Member
423 Posts |
In regards to ""The face value of our coins are symbolic and are not an indicator of the true value of a coin."
canadian coins: I get it now.... a 50 cent 1/25th gold coin is not worth 50 cents... you pay $110. The act says it is worth at least 50 cents though.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2408 Posts |
I found an interesting thread here http://www.cointalk.com/t3878/Quote:
They have developed a numismatic coin exchange program whereby individuals are able to go to authorized participating dealers and distributors to obtain face value of the numismatic coins they hold. The dealers can then avail themselves of an exchange arrangement with the mint for the face value equivalent of these coins in new numismatic products. Anybody actually utilized this method to redeem their NCLT face value? |
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Posted 01/29/2011 4:46 pm
