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 Replies: 18 / Views: 4,152 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
629 Posts |
Its a shame that ICCS seems to have fallen behind in it's grading and in it's technology to protect the coins that are submitted to them.
I am a born Canadian that is a naturalized citizen of the USA. It is my believe that Canadians have a strong sense of heritage and believe that buying Canadian supports Canadian. This is probably true of any culture.
There is nothing wrong with this but we should support those companies that are true to the hobby.
What makes sense to me is putting my coins in a holder that represents their true grade and value.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1442 Posts |
Each grading company has their strengths and weaknesses:
ICCS - no longer an authority of any sort. Not respected outside Canada either. Both technical grading, and coin damage standards have deteriorated. I now consider it very hit and miss, and if I buy an ICCS coin, I have to discount for the possibility of it being cleaned, scratched or damaged in some way...there are still some really good coins in ICCS flips, I've cut out
dozens already and sent them elsewhere...As a collector, I simply feel no inclination to submit any of my coins to ICCS.
CCCS - carving out a niche in the Canadian variety coin market...which will explode one day....also has hard holders...I think CCCS is here to stay, even if PCGS opens in Canada.
PCGS - Still THE best out there. Respected all over the world. Very strict in terms of coin damage. Grading is pretty good. Yes, I find Vickies in the VF20-EF40 range can be a bit overgraded, but that's a minor flaw IMO.
ICG - As a collector, this is where I've decided to send my damaged coins, which I still want in a hard holder. The grading is decent, and you get a full grade including the numeric grade, even on damaged coins. PCGS has started slabbing damaged coins but "VF details" to me is still too vague. VF20 vs VF35 is a HUGE difference...
NGC - Too expensive, dont like the holders, and tends to overgrade more than PCGS.
ANACS - tremendous variability in grading. Different ANACS holders over the years have had completely different grading standards.
Overall, the best thing that could happen is if PCGS opened an office in CANADA.
I think the $6 cost will keep ICCS and CCCS alive, but only for lower grade coins. I see high end Canadian coins disappearing from ICCS flips altogether, over time.
I think CCCS will thrive in its niche of Canadian variety coins, and I'm sending ALL my Canadian variety coins now to CCCS.
The high end variety stuff gets a hard CCCS slab, and the lower grades get the flip.
Edited by canadian-varieties
11/22/2011 11:45 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
902 Posts |
Thanks to you danlos9551, we are starting to see more CCCS on ebay.  |
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Valued Member
Canada
475 Posts |
Just finished a neat experiment on ebay sold 2 virtually identical 1950 short water line dollars from a bag I bought several yeas ago (100 coin bag) Both were graded by ICCS in 2007. Sold one in the ICCS holder and it got LESS than the coin I cut out and sold raw! This is NOT a random occurence I have done this a few times......So question to all collectors of Canadian coins.........what is more important,the number on the holder or the coin itself?Hmm............. |
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Valued Member
United States
493 Posts |
When it comes to ebay and third party graded coins, I almost never buy them unless the seller has put up a really good pic of the coin. In most cases the sellers are selling the holder, not the coin. You all know me as a large cent guy. Current grading at PCGS is the gold standard for higher (AU and up) grades. Below that it really doesn't matter. They are particularly tough on "red". A lot of stuff marked as "red" by the Canadian companies would only make "red brown" at PCGS. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1442 Posts |
Interesting experiment 54dollarcoin...
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Valued Member
Canada
307 Posts |
IMHO I have taken a lot of time and a lot of other peoples time learning how to grade and being comfortable that I am doing it right.....having said that it is an opinion and I refuse to give TPG companies the all knowing omnipotent nod as they are human and as such their grade is an opinion....an I humbly submit no more valid than mine. So to make a long story short no matter what grade is on the flip/slab whatever it is called I will only offer to buy based on what I think the grade is....in a great world we agree on the grade....in a not so great we negotiate. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1442 Posts |
Its impossible to grade from ebay photos in 90% of cases. That's why its crucial to know the different TPGs and their strengths and weaknesses...that's what all these messageboard threads are for... It's important especially for new collectors to be aware of problems with grading companies like ICCS...because Canadian dealers in general, will never warn you of problems with a company like ICCS, as most are too busy scraping together a living off selling damaged ICCS coins... |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1733 Posts |
I don't actually believe most coin dealers are "too busy scraping together a living off selling damaged ICCS coins" . I'm the first person to say something about TPG's but I almost always put the onus back on the buyer. If you buy a coin sight unseen (pics or not) that you can't send back, you have money to burn and that's the end of it. If you bought a damaged coin after seeing it in hand, regardless of who's packaging it's in, who really is at fault? You wouldn't buy a classic car without making sure the serials match, why would you buy a coin without the same due diligence? I find the conversation cyclical and onerous. Look at the bleeping coins and if you don't understand what you're buying get some help, call a friend, do what it takes to make sure the final answer is correct. One thing about coin collecting is that it rarely requires a snap judgement and in those instances where it does, I'm always suspicious of why. Even getting help on a forum like this is not that great because we all see different things in the photos. I look at a coin and I see a large bald patch on Vickies head because the coin is probably slightly spooned and call it a 20 and someone else sees great details in the ribbons + jewels and calls it a 30. That's great that you get opinions but it's not our money. The onus has to be on the educated buyer. The buck stops there. I'd just like to note that the PCGS guarantee is entirely different and commendable. You might not believe the grade, but if you find the item is not authentic, you have some recourse. I often wonder what their insurance costs. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
576 Posts |
This thread keeps reoccurring and few positions will budge. My major complaint with PCGS is maritime coinage. They obviously seem to know little of how to grade these coins and collectors purchasing a PCGS coin of Newfoundland in particular are simply looking for trouble. Otherwise, buy what appeals to you.
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Valued Member
Canada
183 Posts |
I deal with CCCS grading good service and friendly advice.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
629 Posts |
When I am purchasing coins on ebay, I am always in the situation of what's "ending soonest". With that said, sometimes I just have to take the coins/notes as they are, with the pictures shown as I don't have enough time usually to get responses to my questions before the time is up. So it's my fault if I get bum coins that are not graded properly when they are RAW but when they are in a graded holder from ICCS, PCGS, NGC - I expect them to be accurate - what seems to be a problem is that the pillar of Canadian grading (ICCS) is now having their standards lowered. Is it that fresh new material is not showing up at their doorsteps and therefore limiting their income? Such that those that do submit are pleased since the coins are being graded higher than what they thought and remarks unless noted are kept to a minimum? |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1442 Posts |
I dont know what's causing ICCS to drop their standards. The son took over? I'm sure the cause is "financial" in nature.  Lots of experienced posters here have seen ICCS take a dive, but are happy to defend them at every turn.  In fact, they viciously attack new collectors instead.  Funny anecdote... a few months back I bought a Vicky 50c ICCS EF45 from a major Canadian auction house for $4500. What I got in the mail was a PCGS EF45. So I call up and say: "listen...this is not ICCS EF45. PCGS EF45 is like an ICCS VF30. I paid for ICCS EF45." The response? "Oh no, that USED to be true, not anymore. We can send the coin to Brian and have it probably graded ICCS EF45..." I took my refund...   Caveat emptor indeed...between ICCS shoddy grading, and several unscrupulous major Canadian dealers...Canadian coin collecting is a VERY dangerous hobby for the new collector. Edited by canadian-varieties
12/28/2011 4:51 pm
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Moderator
 Canada
10463 Posts |
Quote:
Canadian coin collecting is a VERY dangerous hobby for the new collector. Most new collectors don't have the kind expendable income to walk in the same footprints that you have, buying 4 figure coins sight unseen. The lessons you have learned (and I am glad you are sharing them), are valuable to others. I would think opposite is true for new collectors, it is a buyers market now, if you take the time to learn how to grade, and acquire knowledge from books, coin clubs and online forums, there has never been a better time to buy BU rolls, circulated rolls, and raw coins for almost melt value... "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1442 Posts |
"there has never been a better time to buy BU rolls, circulated rolls, and raw coins for almost melt value..." definitely agree with that...I see the biggest opportunities now in silver coins in particular...especially now that silver is almost 50% off its peak...the ebay masses were chasing the silver bubble at $50+ / oz...the post-bubble rush downward is creating and will create incredible opportunities in rare silver coins... |
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Replies: 18 / Views: 4,152 |
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Posted 11/22/2011 11:42 am
