| Author |
 Replies: 36 / Views: 3,737 |
Page 3 of 3
|
|
|
|
Locked
822 Posts |
Quote:
And if they were being sold as paperweights and clearly labeled as such, then YES it is fine. Wow. I mean really.... Wow. I can't believe you actually typed those words. This may indeed be the new most ridiculous thing I've ever read on this forum. OK, show of hands people. How many of you actually would be perfectly OK with the Chinese counterfeits coins if they packaged them and sold them as paperweights? |
|
Moderator
 Australia
16868 Posts |
Quote:Your insane insistance that the market is going to be flooded by counterfeits because someone sells a Magicians coin that looks like a Morgan is just that, insane. From what I could tell in the picture, this guy wasn't selling a " Magician's coin". He was selling one of the fake steel Morgans that are already flooding the American coin marketplace. The seller, in that sense, is part of the problem. Quote:
And if they were being sold as paperweights and clearly labeled as such, then YES it is fine. The issue is something being sold as something it isn't. The Hobby Protection Act offers no exemptions for Magician's coins. If it's a fake coin and not stamped "COPY", it's illegal to sell it. And ebay's rules are likewise inflexible: replica coins must be sold in the R&R section, and must be stamped in a HPA-compliant way. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
|
|
Forum Dad
United States
24181 Posts |
Quote:
Because someone can use it in a way other than intended does not make the sale wrong. There's a problem with this line of thinking. The legality has nothing to do with the use of the item, it is the item itself. It's a counterfeit coin, and therefore illegal, regardless of the actual, intended, implied, or packaged use. There's absolutely no reason copy can't be stamped on these. So why isn't it? |
|
Rest in Peace
 United States
1380 Posts |
Got to say I'm with scubu here. It's a fake Morgan, and your average newbie is going to think it is real. The chinese fakes are being touted on ebay as "replicas" but are shipped without being stamped "copy", then resold by buyers here as genuine. This is the same. Some of these WILL be resold at flea markets or antique stores as real, because they are NOT marked as copy, and are close enough to fool many people. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1150 Posts |
Philosophically I would normally agree with BFredd. However, if someone used a steak knife in a crime they could/would be arrested.
When it comes to these fake dollars there really is no way to hold the makers accountable (they are in a foreign country)so I don't think they should be sold in any fashion.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3755 Posts |
I stand by what I said. If you dont like it, oh well. Not being sold as a Morgan, not a problem. If it is being sold as a real Morgan, then there is an issue. Sorry you are not capable of making that seperation.
|
|
Forum Dad
United States
24181 Posts |
This may sound silly but let me ask you this... What if I put an ounce of a prescription drug up for sale on ebay as a paperweight? Sure, the buyer can use the ounce of the prescription drug as a paperweight and never use it for anything but a paperweight or sell it for any other purpose but a paperweight. Does that make me selling the prescription drug any less illegal? It's no different than a counterfeit coin. No matter what it's advertised as, magicians prop or paperweight, it's still illegal to sell a counterfeit coin, which is what it is. |
|
Rest in Peace
United States
1380 Posts |
You sell something as a not-real Morgan, admit it looks just like a Morgan, weighs very close to the same as a Morgan and is NOT marked as a copy, you have got to realize that somewhere down the line some one is going to think it IS a real Morgan. You may tell yourself that you aren't being unethical, because you tell people it's not real, but you know someone sometime is going to think it is and get messed up.
But that is all irrelevant, since the HPA says if it looks like a morgan, unless it is 3" or more in diameter, it must be stamped "copy", regardless of what it is sold as.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1150 Posts |
Hey smoke, chill out. I'm certain everyone here can make the seperation you are refering to. However, we obviously don't agree.
Bobby, you hit the nail on the head. That is exactly where I'm coming from on this issue. If anyone can explain to me any legitimate usage for this piece (and by that I'm mean magic wise and how it could be feasibly used), and why it would hurt to have 'copy' stamped on it, than I'll listen.
|
|
Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Quote:
However, if someone used a steak knife in a crime they could/would be arrested. I just bought some Farberware. Care to guess where it was made? If someone in the US sells a fake as real, they, too, can be arrested. |
|
Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
bobby-
It is illegal to dispense prescription drugs without a license and a prescription, no matter what you call them. That's the difference.
|
|
Rest in Peace
United States
1380 Posts |
No, that's why its the same. Any item made to look like a coin, made or sold in the U.S. after 197x must be stamped "copy" or it violates the HPA and is illegal, regardless of intent or purpose.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
5863 Posts |
You guys are talking at each other instead of talking to each other.
It is illegal to make an item that looks like a U.S. coin without the word "copy" on it, so whoever made the Morgan replica broke the law. That doesn't mean, however, that it is illegal to sell such an item (especially if you clearly identify it as a copy).
|
|
Forum Dad
United States
24181 Posts |
Quote:
That doesn't mean, however, that it is illegal to sell such an item (especially if you clearly identify it as a copy). I think you need to check the law again. If they're not marked according to the HPA, they're illegal, no matter who made it. http://www.gadsdentimes.com/article...ws/110809946Quote:
Jenkins is accused of selling the counterfeit silver coins at Mal's Jewelry and Loan on Broad Street, where the merchant paid $1,120 for the collection sealed in plastic. After the transaction, the merchant inspected the coins more closely and realized they were made of steel. Steel. Think they were magnetic?  I could throw a list of proof an arms length long together in about 10 minutes but I won't. |
|
Valued Member
United States
333 Posts |
Bobby is correct, the fake can be confiscated. Additionally, as others have said, the fact that it is being sold as a "magic coin" does not matter as: Quote:
(b) Coins and other numismatic items
The manufacture in the United States, or the importation into the United States, for introduction into or distribution in commerce of any imitation numismatic item which is not plainly and permanently marked "copy", is unlawful and is an unfair or deceptive act or practice in commerce under the Federal Trade Commission Act [15 U.S.C. 41 et seq.]. Definitions as follows: Quote:
(3) The term "original numismatic item" means anything which has been a part of a coinage or issue which has been used in exchange or has been used to commemorate a person or event. Such term includes coins, tokens, paper money, and commemorative medals.
(4) The term "imitation numismatic item" means an item which purports to be, but in fact is not, an original numismatic item or which is a reproduction, copy, or counterfeit of an original numismatic item. Thus, I could create a "magic coin" that was a 1925 Morgan because that year didn't exist, but I can't create or import a fake 1921 Morgan that is magnetic without correct markings. Now, the ebay seller himself may not be violating the HPA in selling this fake (I doubt he manufactured or imported it personally), but he may be violating other laws and he is absolutely violating other laws if attempts to sell as a real coin. Source: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/15/ch48.htmlDo your own due diligence regarding the laws if you wish to create or sell something like this, please. Don't just rely on me. Edited by BuffaloBonehead
12/28/2011 7:50 pm
|
|
Page 3 of 3
|
Replies: 36 / Views: 3,737 |
Page 3 of 3
|
First Page
Previous Page
Posted 12/28/2011 10:56 am
