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Can You Counterfeit Annual US Mint Proof Sets?

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 Posted 02/11/2012  10:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list
It has been done for some time or at least a variation of it.

It really started back in 1999 when they stopped sealing the proof sets. For awhile on ebay there was a big market in "error" proof sets that were missing one of the State Quarters and had two of one of the others. The scammers would buy five normal sets, open them, swap the quarters around and sell the "error" sets for $300 to $400 apiece.

Then in 2000 some special "VIP" 10 coin 1999 proof sets began hitting the market. The 1999 sets were nine coin sets because the SBA came out late in the year and wasn't included in the set. The sellers were promoting these sets as special sets made up for some VIP's and they were very rare. The scammers were opening up a 10 coin 2000 proof set and replacing the coins with 1999 coins and the 1999 SBA. Then putting them in a 1999 box. These sets were bringing as much as $1500. If you knew your proof sets you knew what was going on because they changed the color of the insert between the 1999 and 2000 sets.

Then the price of the 1999 silver proof sets went through the roof scammers opened them up slabbed the silver coins and sold the slabbed silver set, then refilled the set with clads and put them back in the silver proof set box and sold them on ebay.

I have also seen 1990 prestige proof sets that have been opened and the proof cent replaced with a nice BU Philadelphia coin, reassembled and sold as the rare 1990 missing S set. They liked using the Prestige set because the outer holder hid the signs of tampering on the proof set holder inside. These would bring a couple grand.
Edited by Conder101
02/11/2012 10:28 am
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 Posted 02/14/2012  12:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wquinn to your friends list
Those are some pretty amazing scams and good to know of.

It is a shame a few sellers spoil it for everyone.
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 Posted 02/14/2012  1:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CaptainFwiffo to your friends list
It would be pretty easy to add some sort of seal or sticker to the edges of the holder to make the sets tamper-evident. Stupid mint.
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 Posted 02/14/2012  2:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wquinn to your friends list


Great idea.
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 Posted 02/14/2012  3:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list
I do not agree.

The proof set packaging is only meant to temporarily hold coins until they are opened up to fill albums.
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 Posted 02/14/2012  3:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wquinn to your friends list
Doh!

I cringe every time I hear someone say that.
Edited by wquinn
02/14/2012 3:12 pm
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 Posted 02/14/2012  4:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list

Quote:
Yes, the sets can be opened and coins can be swapped. Then it can be glued shut again to look as good as new. I have heard of at least once, from a silver proof set, that this was done and clad coins were put in place.

So if you are buying any sets, buy at a coin show and check them. I don't know how closely any dealer looks at the sets to verify them, if they bought them from anyone other than from the Mint.

As noted above.
The only way to make sure it has not been tamered with in one way or other is if you go the Mint and buy one as it comes off the line. Of course that doesn't mean a Mint worker is not a counterfeiter though. Would be a great job and place to pass of your own fakes.
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 Posted 02/15/2012  6:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list

Quote:
I have never had any problem opening any US Mint product. I do not think they actually seal any holders they have their coins in any more, or at least I haven't came across any that have been sealed


Guess you've never seen any 1973-1978 proof sets, where each coin is welded into the plastic.
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 Posted 02/15/2012  6:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list

Quote:
Substitution of non-Proof coins would be all to easy to identify.


Any circulation strike good enuf to be confused with a proof would be worth more than the proof.
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 Posted 02/15/2012  9:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DNA to your friends list

Quote:
Any circulation strike good enuf to be confused with a proof would be worth more than the proof.


Seriously, moderns Proofs' "S" mintmarks alone identify them from "P" and "D" business strikes (even if one of those came out DCAM!).

Of course, this leaves the field wide open for some really, really nice 1971 Nickels, 1975 Dimes and 1990 Cents...
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 Posted 02/15/2012  10:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CaptainFwiffo to your friends list
An important exception in modern proofs - 1999 Susan B. Anthony dollars were minted in Philadelphia and sport a "P" mintmark.
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 Posted 02/16/2012  11:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

Quote:
Guess you've never seen any 1973-1978 proof sets, where each coin is welded into the plastic.
These sets have extra plastic on them for the display stand. I remember they were "fun" to disassemble, but I do not recall any problems getting the coins out of the internal holder.
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 Posted 02/19/2012  01:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list
Please tell me how.
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 Posted 02/20/2012  1:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list
I am going to have to get my box of empty OGP materials out of storage and have a look at them. I do not recall those particular being too difficult, but the great cracking session was about 18+ years ago. I am sure the "remains" will tell the story.
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 Posted 03/05/2012  2:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list
Regarding the 1973 ~ 1979 OGP lenses, I had the opportunity to look at mine this weekend.

The two halves were sealed together around each coin, but not along the outside edges. However, judging by their current appearance, they came apart relatively cleanly.

When put back together, it is difficult to see that they had been taken apart. The only hint of them being tampered with was along the inside edge around each coin hole. If coins were put back in place, this evidence would not be visible.
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