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1853 Double Eagle

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New Member
United States
31 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2012  3:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ray1221 to your friends list
I admit to being prejudiced and not versed in technical grading. I looked at PCGS photo grade MS62 coin and it is ugly. I bought it to dealers for an opinion on grade and not offering for sale. One said solid 63 but he clients are not in the market for this. Next said "nice type 1 with gold at $1800 that is what it is worth". Next said 58 and offered $2000. Last one said 62 as he drooled over it and offered $4000. I sent pictures to Heritage Auction. I got the automated response that meant they got the pictures and had my email address. But no response in a month.

I am not particularly interested in selling, and from my inquires getting a fair price does not seem easy. My son has a mild interest in coins and when he inherits it I won't care what happens to it. It will live happily in my safe deposit for the rest of my life.

People urge me to get it graded. It seems that the grading fee depends on the value of the coin. Assuming MS61-MS63 that could be 6 to 24k. How do you know the value when you don't know the grade? If the coin is going to live in the vault what benefit is there to getting it graded?

I started collecting coins in the late 1940's and stopped to pursue other hobbies in the late 1970's because of the coin collecting community changing.

Thanks for all who offered opinions on it.

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23522 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2012  4:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list
The offers you're seeing from dealers are founded partly on their balance between what the coin is worth, and their likelihood of having that much capital tied up in one coin while they find a buyer. Obviously, a dealer has to make a little profit on your coin, and unless they have a buyer they know will take it quickly, you're not going to see a reasonable offer. The $4000 guy was almost reasonable, but he was still speculating. He doesn't have a buyer.

Collectors who have both the interest and wherewithal to buy coins like this tend to have longstanding relationships with high-end dealers, who go to auctions with a specific want-list and bid from a knowledge of both the value of the coin, and what their client is willing to pay. Some few collectors bid on their own initiative. But consider my use of the word "bid" - this coin will only see a fair purchase price if liquidated through one of the high-end auction houses. Any of them (Stacks/Bowers, Heritage, and the ilk) will cheerfully consign a coin like this on your behalf, minimizing your effort.

Like it or not, PCGS slabs see higher prices in the marketplace. I'm not expressing an opinion, just a fact. Nobody with $10k to spend on a coin will purchase it raw without the absolute word from a dealer they trust - your ROI for spending the cost of slabbing is obvious both from a standpoint of realized price and saleability.

You determine the cost level of a submission by honestly estimating the grade of your coin. The cost of a PCGS slab would be the same for MS60-62 on this coin, anyway, and a grand total of $20 cheaper if it reaches a lesser grade. If it by some chance reaches MS63, I suspect PCGS will let you know and you'll be happy to fork over an extra $50 because you now have a $30k coin. Considering your initial investment, that won't kill your net profit either way.

Since your intent is to pass this coin on, maximize the value to your heirs by having it slabbed, and ensuring that they're well aware of what it is. It's my usual advice in this case to insert specific language into your will about the nature of the coin and preferred liquidation, it being more binding morally if not legally than bequeathing it in bulk.
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United States
759 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2012  5:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add OneBowl to your friends list
Due to assured authenticity, protection, increased liquidity and maximization of proceeds, whether next month or in 50 years, I can't agree more with SsuperDdave's comment on the ROI associated with having it graded by PCGS. Who knows? When your son finally decides to part with it, 2012 PCGS slabs may even be collectible. I can't stress enough the protection aspect of slabbing that particular coin. One set of sticky fingers and a fumble by yet-to-be-born grand kids 20 years from now could turn it from MS to AU and mean the loss of thousands. I only wish I had your grading dilemma.
Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2012  5:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add johnny54321 to your friends list
I don't think 63 is out of the question here to be honest. The early double eagles are graded a bit more liberally than later ones, and they don't seem to have the same luster quality. These big gold libs also pick up facial marks really easily, and there are very few marks on this one considering. I would think it would either get a 58+, or a 62-63 from PCGS....just a guess.

I agree with Dave, PCGS is imperative; or at least NGC. This could double the value of any offers made on it.
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 Posted 07/31/2012  5:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list
I don't think 63 is out of the question, either, but it's at the point where the old "creating wealth" bugaboo rears its' ugly head.
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 Posted 07/31/2012  10:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mdpmedia to your friends list
ray1221,

How much does this coin weigh?

Will you please keep CCF informed by posting a photo of the completed slab on this thread should you decide to get it evaluated?

I would say MS62 if all parameters are in spec...

Thanks,

mdpmedia
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United States
10982 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2012  10:15 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list
Looks like a solid MS62 and I believe PCGS would agree. NGC might give you a better shot at 63.

It looks like a $15k coin either way and should be kept safe in an Ait-Tite until you decide to have it graded.

Congrats on a great coin!
ANA #R3154474
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3184 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2012  03:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mkman123 to your friends list
Send it to ngc or pcgs
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 Posted 08/01/2012  11:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Captain Morgan to your friends list
MS-63 If it was mine it would go to NGC for there opinion.
Great type set coin. One to be proud of for sure.
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548 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2012  3:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lobby to your friends list
Paying $50 for a coin with $20 face value. Except for the fact that $50 was a lot of money 45 years ago, that seems like a reasonable deal.

Makes one think we should be investing in 1893-S Morgans right now...
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United States
36905 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2012  4:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list

Quote:
Makes one think we should be investing in 1893-S Morgans right now...


At the time that 1853 $20 was $48, you could buy nice BU $5 Liberty's in the $18-20 range. Think I would rather spend the money buying BU $5 Liberty's today in the $500 range than sink the money in 1893-S Morgans, but that's just me.
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 Posted 08/01/2012  5:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lobby to your friends list
I dunno.

If he gets an MS-63 grade for that coin, he's got $30k in that thing. For a coin with only $1600 dollars worth of gold, that collector value is pretty good. :-)
New Member
United States
31 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2012  6:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ray1221 to your friends list
The dealer I bought it from was a nice guy. I don't feel bad that I overpaid $2. I didn't know at the time but it is a good date.
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 Posted 08/01/2012  7:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mkman123 to your friends list
good job! Send it in to get graded!
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 Posted 08/01/2012  11:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list
It really is an exceptionally nice double eagle, with extremely clean fields and a strong strike. The mint frost on the coronet between the letters of LIBERTY looks perfect. There might be enough rub in the obverse fields to make it a technical AU-58 but the eye appeal is so much better. Beautiful!
I suggest you find a PCGS-authorized dealer to handle the submission for you. I expect they should charge you $100 or a bit more and it's money well spent. Make sure you get receipts!
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