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Is Light Needed To Add Toning?

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 Posted 08/01/2012  7:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dave H to your friends list
Temperature (heat), humidity and lack of handling are the three +++ for toning. Canvas bags, envelopes & sulfur folders are the best methods for the toning to occur in
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 Posted 08/01/2012  7:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list
If matches are mostly sulfur, has anyone here ever experimented with putting a silver coin in a box with lid and crushing up a couple match heads to sprinkle in the box?
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 Posted 08/01/2012  7:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yankee1227 to your friends list
I heard that works ^
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 Posted 08/01/2012  7:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dave H to your friends list
Yes, to artificially tone the coin... Where does the line get crossed from artificial & natural toning?
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 Posted 08/01/2012  9:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CPC24 to your friends list
Coins can tone in paper rolls, not just bags, if left long enough. I found several old rolls of silver halves the other day: some had serious toning, one even had verdigris. The paper rolls themselves were old and frayed. A while back, I found a '64 Kennedy with fabric toning. It has the most amazing pattern; you can even see the woven threads!
Edited by CPC24
08/01/2012 9:53 pm
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 Posted 08/01/2012  10:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dave H to your friends list
End roll toning is one of the most vivid & colorful types of toning. The coins where you can see the fabic is so cool, too
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 Posted 08/02/2012  12:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list
Light can play a part in the formation of toning on silver coins. Many silver compounds darken on exposure to light. I believe a fingerprint, for example, will darken much quicker in bright light than in a darkened room. However, the "rainbow coloured" toning that coin collectors find fashionable these days is caused by a thin film effect, which will occur no matter what colour the compounds are.

If tarnish prevention is your goal, then protecting a coin from the atmosphere is far more critical than protecting a coin from light. I look at my mother's silver spoon collection, which has been hanging on the wall for several decades now: the ones in bright light don't look any worse than the ones in deep shade, but the ones in the airtight cabinet are still pristine while the ones in open air are ugly and tarnished.

Quote:
Where does the line get crossed from artificial & natural toning?

It's a tricky question that has long been debated in coin collecting circles.

Personally, I'd restrict using the term "artificial toning" to forms of toning that use chemicals a coin is not likely to encounter in day to day use and circulation - clorox bleach, for example, is "artificial", since chlorine gas is not something most people have everyday experience with or expose their coins to, and the resultant "toning" is physically and chemically distinct from normal silver toning.

One could perhaps use terms such as "intentional toning", but it can sometimes be very difficult to determine the "intent" of a coin's previous owners, just by looking at the coin. Just about any kind of toning can be made to look like an accident.

It might be most accurate to talk of "accelerated toning". That's where people deliberately expose coins to an adverse environment, particularly one rich in sulfur: things like match heads, crushed garlic, eggs or simply leaving it on a sunny kitchen window. There is usually no chemical difference between the toning on such "accelerated" coins and "natural" toning, but the more aggressive methods can leave additional residues on the coin that can be detected. Suffice to say that a coin that still smells like garlic, rotten eggs or brimstone has probably been artificially toned.
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 Posted 08/02/2012  12:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list

Quote:
One could perhaps use terms such as "intentional toning", but it can sometimes be very difficult to determine the "intent" of a coin's previous owners, just by looking at the coin. Just about any kind of toning can be made to look like an accident.

It might be most accurate to talk of "accelerated toning". That's where people deliberately expose coins to an adverse environment, particularly one rich in sulfur: things like match heads, crushed garlic, eggs or simply leaving it on a sunny kitchen window. There is usually no chemical difference between the toning on such "accelerated" coins and "natural" toning, but the more aggressive methods can leave additional residues on the coin that can be detected. Suffice to say that a coin that still smells like garlic, rotten eggs or brimstone has probably been artificially toned.


Personally I would say those are both artificial toning. Doing anything to accelerate it or increase it no matter how it is done is not the natural course it would have taken over its life.

That said though I do agree that unless they used foods if the methods were all natural with no substance exposure calling it artificial doesn't really matter as it looks the same and was just helped along. While Id classify it as artificial I dont think in any way it decreases the value or cheapens the coin any more then carrying a circulated coin around that was cleaned to make it natural again does. More just calling a spade a spade, but in the end doesn't really matter
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 Posted 08/02/2012  09:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list

Quote:
If matches are mostly sulfur, has anyone here ever experimented with putting a silver coin in a box with lid and crushing up a couple match heads to sprinkle in the box?

Yes that will work. Actually many items will make coins tone. Placing a coin in a box, bag, jar with ground up match heads will work fine. Same with parts of eggs but that gets mushy and smelly. Same with many items found around the house.
If you use the Search tab at the top and type in Toning, Toned coins, etc. you should find many posts about that subject and many possible methods of toning.
Remember that toning on a coin is in a way similar or the same as tarnishing, corroding, staining, etc. It is a chemical reaction of the coin's metal with a substance usually in a gasseous form. Some solutions too will create that toning effect. Gun Bluing solutions are an example.
The Sun does little to tone a coin unless the coin is within a few miles of the Sun of course. Light does nothing to metals but the Infra Red portions of light are actually heat and that will increase chemical reactions such as coin toning. No one so far has proven that cosmic rays from space tones coins though. Most portions of visible light will just bounce off metals but there are numerous parts of light that are not visable such as the Infra Red bands and those would effect metals as noted above.
For toning coins there are so many methods attempted all the time that it is really becoming difficult to know what is AT and what is NT. That debate has been discussed here many times too.
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 Posted 08/02/2012  10:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list
I would say that most of the contribution that sunlight would make to the toning would be to warm up the book. Warmer temperature cause chemical reactions to speed up.
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 Posted 08/02/2012  11:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list
The mechanism for toning is well documented in the book Coin Chemistry. I suggest you buy a copy, it's a great reference book. In a nutshell, toning is simply the reaction of hydrogen sulfide and a metal. Light has nothing to do with the process.
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 Posted 08/02/2012  11:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list
For photographic purposes, the appearance of toning can be less or more strongly emphasised with lighting.
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 Posted 08/02/2012  12:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dave H to your friends list
And also the angle that the coin is photographed
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 Posted 08/03/2012  2:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list

Quote:
The mechanism for toning is well documented in the book Coin Chemistry. I suggest you buy a copy, it's a great reference book. In a nutshell, toning is simply the reaction of hydrogen sulfide and a metal. Light has nothing to do with the process.

Partially true Thad. But remember that many gasses cause what some say is toning. For example and regardless of how many say Gold is inert, even Gold tarnishes and/or stains or tones, pending on usage of terminology. Gold reacts with Chlorine to form Gold Chloride, or with HCl to form Chlorauric Acid. And Gold also reats with Fluorine, Cyanide, etc. And many Nitrates too cause a toning effect.
And as to light. Just to vague a question. The many types of light may effect metals but just has not been proven or disproven. Visable light, NO. All others, no one knows or just isn't telling.
Edited by just carl
08/03/2012 2:39 pm
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 Posted 08/03/2012  3:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list
That's true Carl, but the main culprit is H2S....I was trying to use the KISS program. LOL
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