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 Replies: 38 / Views: 4,412 |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:
I think it's gorgeous. I thought that too at first. Then seeing the non close up I just cant stop staring at the black areas for some reason which ruin it for me. Its one thing for that on an ancient, that shows character, but not on coins from the 1900s on. I also just get the feeling those black spots will look worse in hand too But I have no problem being the odd ball on this one  Edited by basebal21
09/17/2012 9:05 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1662 Posts |
Side by side which would you prefer? This one with tarnish/patina/toning, or one literally 'mint state' with original surfaces?
Edited by ArrowsAndRays
09/17/2012 10:31 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3540 Posts |
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Rest in Peace
United States
5375 Posts |
Looks full head enough to me, not perfect, but at least enough for MS-68 FH.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:
Side by side which would you prefer? This one with tarnish/patina/toning, or one literally 'mint state' with original surfaces? Personally Id take the mint state |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1590 Posts |
To the best of my knowledge, unless something has changed within the last few years; strike has never been a part of grading a coin. It is strictly according to surface preservation. Bowers mentions this time and time again in his books. And if an expert such as Bowers says strike is NOT a component of a TPG's grade, then I have to believe it. |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Both Halperin, in How to Grade US Coins, and the Official ANA Grading Standards for United States Coins specifically list strike quality as one of the primary grading considerations. Both of them qualify strike as relating to date and mint capabilities - comparing the coin to the "best" one could expect from that particular issue. It is not difficult to find 1919 SLQ's with a lesser grade and a superior strike to the coin being discussed here. Given today's grading atmosphere (reactive to the unpopularity to previous standards) and the new NGC holder in which this coin resides, I'm inclined to trust their decision against FH. And since FH 1919's are available (I looked at a couple of slam-dunk FH's at Heritage before posting this), I would contend that ANA's language regarding MS69: Quote:
Must have very attractive sharp strike and full original luster for the date and mint ....precludes MS69 as a grade for a non-FH coin. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1590 Posts |
"In earlier editions of this book, we noted that prevailing standards dictated that for a coin to be graded MS-65 (or Proof 65) or higher it must be an ABOVE average strike. This point has not been completely defind in the literature is not completely consistent in practice....for a few series a notation about strike might be added." Page 23. The Official American Numismatic Association Grading standards for United States coins. 6th Ed. Kenneth Bressett Ed. Whitman Publishing, LLC, Atlanta Ga. Copyright 2006 So I stand partially corrected. But it is obvious from a complete reading that Sharp strike is NOT the same as "full details". See also p. 348 where it states that FH does not equal FD. See also Bill Fivaz's comments contrasting "full details" vs "Sharp strike" on pp 34-36 of "Grading Coins by Photographs" by Q.David Bowers. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1374 Posts |
Sharp strike seems to be a component of grading for many series. Cameos, ultra cameos, etc. are grades assigned to the first coins off the die, which imparts the strongest strike. For circulation coinage, DMPL for Morgans seems to me to be a type of "cameo" for business strikes. Merc dimes can be full-split bands, Jeffersons can have full steps, etc. I'm not familiar with the + and star grading additions, but I would suspect sharpness of strike are a component of those lofty designations. I wonder how many MS70's are floating around that were Struck Through Grease. |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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...precludes MS69 as a grade for a non-FH coin. Seems like that would also take 68 and 67 out of the running too. If the strike isn't full I cant see how you could say its any better than a good strike or very good strike, but definitely not very well struck |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
....and to reinforce your position as opposed to mine - to the extent we disagree, which ain't much - it's a known and stated point that individual TPG's use their own standards for grading. Based on ANA, yes, but their own all the same. So all I'm arguing here is a personal belief as to how these things ought to be, considering all the evidence we've both presented adds up to the proof that there isn't any One True Grading Scale. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3184 Posts |
I've seen AU58 coins with a FH better than a MS coin
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1704 Posts |
Grading has always been subjective no matter what grading standards have been adopted, or more precisely, recommended for use in the coin industry. I have been told by many a professional coin dealer that a person could take one coin send it in to the same grading service and be examined by the same graders multiple times and get a different grade each time. This lack of consistency is why a lot of collectors don't have much faith in the TPGs. And then to throw salt into the wound here comes CAC to grade the graders. I myself won't buy a slabbed coin sight unseen as was the intent of having coins put into slabs in the first place. If I like the coin at the asking price I'll buy it, I am not buying a grade on a slip of paper sealed in plastic. By the way the toning on this 1919 SLQ is absolutely awesome IMHO and if I had the resources I would definitely add this coin to my collection. Ed ANA LM-3175 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1590 Posts |
Dave you are absolutely correct. No argument from me. Lol@Drsandman2....MS70 Struck Through Grease........ |
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Posted 09/17/2012 10:29 pm
