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What Do You Think The Grades Are For Both 1875 Dimes

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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2781 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  1:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wade to your friends list
if poker's picture was reposted for educational or discussion purposes instead of 'for profit' I do not think he, or anyone, would have a big issue with it even if credit wasn't given. but to use it while his listing was still active is in poor taste regadless if it goes against ebay policy or not. if you really aren't afraid to compete with his coin why not provide a link to his listing instead of stealing his image?

it would be like if a competitor parked their company van in front of my retail outlet so that they could leach from my hard earned customer base.

am I afraid that they provide better serive and/or better goods & pricing? NOPE.

does it say a lot about the person who parked their van there? YES.

did that guy ever find his van after I politely asked him to stop doing it but he did it again anyways? hehehe NOPE.

PS, I agree with the grades already given
Edited by Wade
01/06/2013 1:59 pm
Pillar of the Community
1844 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  2:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add artdio to your friends list
Wade , once again off the topic.I did as he asked..
# 2 I was not stealing his pic , I used it side by side for Educational and grading reference.not for me but for others.
# 3 it also helped promote his coin as anyone looking at mine seen his
# 4 My coin was listed as higher grade and higher priced and only was his coin there to show potential buyers. VF 30 looks this way My EF looks this way..
#5 as far as putting in a link if I had known I would have.just seemed quicker my way.

as far as your reference to and I quote " does it say a lot about the person who parked their van there? YES.

you dont know me at all and to say this is a blatant attack against my person and I take great offence to it....

Feel free to ask any one who knows me and they will tell you how wrong you are... I go out of my way to help people I dont even know and never expect anything in return..

I donate 2500.00 yearly to the local food bank
another couple g notes to the Salvation Army
ect.....enough of this.... stick to the topic please which is the grades.

I FIXED IT and its OVER .....and I messaged Poker to say so and even totally revised my listing.......FUNNY no praise for this only negs about other issue
Pillar of the Community
United States
1002 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  3:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add canuck1us to your friends list

Quote:
Now get this I used this side by side in my listing to show potential buyers the difference between both coins..

The guy asked me to remove his pic..You can see why.. I said sure no prob..Even though I did not think I was doing anything wrong , I removed his pic ...The guy reports me to ebay as copyright inf....and has my listing pulled on 1 simple coomplaint ?


I think if you hadn't included this portion in your original post but had asked for the grades on this coin, the majority of the responses would have been to comment on the grades.

By including the above, you opened it up for people's comments on the copyright issues, etc.
Pillar of the Community
1844 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  3:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add artdio to your friends list
canuck...Perhaps your right , but the topic itself was the grades..Read all the comments..from the very first one I state I did what he asked..So from that part on would have been nice to say bad boy but at least you fixed it..NO all I hear is how wrong I was.. I'm done telling every one it was fixed the second I received his email.....So then Why have my listing removed when the pic was no longer there ? makes no sense why someone would do it..but any ways.
Im sure I will keep hearing how wrong I was and yada yada yada........
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2781 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  4:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wade to your friends list

Quote:
I was not stealing his pic


not to split hairs with you, but canadian copyright laws might disagree with you.

as far as comparing you to the guy in the van, sorry if you are offended, I just dont see a lot of difference IN THIS CASE. you took intellectual property that did not belong to you and used it for your financial advantage.

now I am sure that you are great guy in a lot of aspects, of which I am not privey to. but the only opinion that I can form is from what YOU posted in a public forum.
Pillar of the Community
1844 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  4:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add artdio to your friends list
Wade , if you want to go copyright laws then that pic belong to the RCM , as does all pics of all coins , but you dont see them getting their panties in an uproar ? do you..

as for my financial advantage ? How ? His coin his grade has a value...My coin my grade has a value..If I was advertising my coin as same as his , same grade then I would slap myself also.... I did none of that..and once again I will repeat myself..

I used it side by side for Educational and grading reference.not for me but for others.
# 3 it also helped promote his coin as anyone looking at mine seen his
# 4 My coin was listed as higher grade and higher priced and only was his coin there to show potential buyers. VF 30 looks this way My EF looks this way..
#5 as far as putting in a link if I had known I would have.just seemed quicker my way.

So you judge people on a 1 time basis ...I see ...well thats your issues my friend..not mine....... but getting personal when there is no reason to is very distasteful ..

Now if you want to go on the copyright thing..then anytime someone posts a pic on this forum that does not belong to them , then I guess they are all bad like me ? hummmm but yet no one has anything to say about that..

want proof...Go look at the AT coin thread ..THATS MY COIN and I did not give permission to anyone to use it...but do you see me crying bad boy , copyright , blah blah..no I'm bigger than that and its all about coins and it is such a petty issue to yak on...
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1192 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  6:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pokermandude to your friends list
I accept your apology, but you have to realize that you've brought this all upon yourself, artdio.

For the record: If a person takes a photograph (of anything) they own the rights to that image and its use. I can take my own picture of any RCM coin and the image belongs to me. Using an image that someone else (person, RCM website, etc) has taken for your own personal gain is against the law. The owner of the rights to the photograph is well within their right to get it removed.

Posting a picture for discussion only is fine (eg your toned coin on the other forum here), using an image you didn't take yourself (without permission or own the rights to) is not fine.

If you had not used my image in your ebay advertisement and had instead just posted here for a comparison, I would have been totally fine with that. If you had simply provided a link to my ebay item in your description, that is also fine, provided you aren't making any direct or indirect comments about my coin.
Pillar of the Community
1844 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  6:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add artdio to your friends list
Poker...I never made any negative comments about your coin in my listing and you know this..as far as a link If I had known I would have..And as far as ownership of a pic unless it is copy righted its open.. I know this as fact as I have a business in Toronto and all our images have copyright on them..and the images of others that are also copyrighted we have to ask and in many cases we pay a fee too use them.
NOW
...Im not saying what I did was right but I sure did not think it was harming anyone..
In fact it was like free promotion for your coin because anyone who wants a certified coin would see your at same time as mine.......

Did I benefit from it heck know... anyhow no worries .. and good collecting ...
Bedrock of the Community
Canada
10743 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  6:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SHAFTA9a to your friends list
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10460 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  6:51 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list

Quote:
If you wanna be petty about the whole situation, the coin belongs to the Government of Canada and the RCM. It is their property which is why it is illegal to melt.


Wrong. The coin in question was minted by the Heaton Mint, but ownership of that "image" would have belonged to The Royal Mint (as per to the laws of the day, in Great Britain). The Royal Canadian Mint did not exist until 1908.

Copyright is automatic, thanks to the Berne Convention. At the moment of creation, when the artwork is fixed in some tangible form, copyright applies automatically. For a photographer, when you press the shutter release you are making a photo and gaining copyright to that photo at the same time. You dont have to declare copyright or file any paperwork. It is yours to keep until you explicitly give it away or you die (Canadian copyright expires after you, i.e., authors lifetime plus 50 years). Do not confuse copyright with intellectual property...

For coins prior to 1937, the copyright to the images on Canadian coins has expired. Yet, one has to be dance carefully around that, when dealing with the 1908-1998 and 2010 special RCM sets and the 2012 silver 1-cent images. For coins dating from 1937, it is different. For example, when some designs created by one George Kruger Gray, who died in 1943. In any event, Section 12 of the Copyright Act would put the image into the public domain no later than 50 years from creation, namely in 1987, assuming that the Mint, in 1937, was an emanation of the Crown under the direction and control of His Majesty, as Her Majesty then was. And even if that isn't right for whatever reason, any possible copyright that Mr. Gray could have had would have expired and gone into the public domain no later than 1993, fifty years after he expired. Those images are now in the public domain. Even so, the Royal Canadian Mint claims ownership of all images of those coins, because they continue to use them. Here is a recent example...

http://www.newswire.ca/fr/story/566...l-government

That said, for "modern coins" what we are creating is classified as "derivative works". You are, in essence, copying what the engravers and the Royal Canadian Mint hold the copyright to. You can take all the photos you want, of their "art" but you cannot claim copyright or gain financially from images of their coins. You could claim copyright, for example with thematic groups of coins, or creating art using coins, or by adding colour to coins.

http://www.mint.ca/store/mint/about...erty-1800010

Should you want to claim copyright, using a coin from the Royal Canadian Mint, you have to use this form:

http://www.mint.ca/store/dyn/PDFs/R...ation_v1.pdf

The Bank of Canada has their own form as well. But, the Mint's policies, unlike those of the Bank, do not start with the premise that no permission is required for purposes of photos or filming, and so technically permission should be sought in order to avoid a potential infringement claim.

I am sure there is a legal agreement in place with the RCNA and Trajan Publishing (Canadian Coin News) and the RCM regarding images used in their publications. I know that the Charlton Press has such an agreement. I imagine individual ebay sellers are not worth their time, but they were quick to go after that artist using an image of the 1-cent last year (which was quickly rescinded)...

http://www.mint.ca/store/news/state...out+the+Mint


"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

My eBay store
Edited by SPP-Ottawa
01/06/2013 6:53 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1723 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  7:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add samsnate to your friends list
Well then SPP I considered myself schooled ....I did forget about the 50 year rule.

So does that mean this coin is now completely pokers property and can do whatever he wants with it? Like melt it?
Edited by samsnate
01/06/2013 7:12 pm
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10460 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  8:00 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list
Do not confuse copyright when it comes to images, with defacing or destroying currency... I encourage you to look it up, here is a good place to start:

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

My eBay store
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1723 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  8:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add samsnate to your friends list
IM only trying to find out if the coin is still officially someone elses property other than pokers, and If there "could" ever technically be a case against him for using someone elses product in raw form for financial gain. I know there wont be but just curious "if" it could happen. I should have just come out and asked it this way because I'm very aware or the differance between copyright when it comes to images, and defacing or destroying currency. Sorry, but wanted to ask you since you seem to have a fair bit of info up in that brain of yours! And feel free to stop me here if you know where I'm going with this.
Edited by samsnate
01/06/2013 8:50 pm
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10460 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  10:17 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list
Most of the info in my brain pertains to glacial dynamics and process sedimentology... I don't want to contaminate it with any more Canadian Law than I have to...
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

My eBay store
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1723 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  10:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add samsnate to your friends list
Thats a lot of big words
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