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Australian 1920 Double Dot Penny

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Pillar of the Community
Australia
852 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2013  12:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nealeffendi to your friends list
Mr T
The problem is that the annual reports to The Royal Mint were done annually yet the dates on the dies were often of a previous year.
I have seen the original log books for Sydney so I'm somewhat confident that Sydney struck 1,325,760 (1104.8 bags delivered) based on that many delivered from the coining room to store (it is possible that I made a transcribing error from the faded/ scratchy handwriting).
Mullett has the figures for pennies dated 1920 as 1,379,760 for Sydney,7018,800 for Melbourne and 93,600 for Perth (8,492,160 all up). But I wouldn't rely on Mulletts figures as his counts for both 1924 and 1926 Sydney mintages don't gel with the log books.
Pillar of the Community
Australia
852 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2013  01:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nealeffendi to your friends list
I have seen that TDK reference before.
Sadly it is wrong about being a No Dot as there is the rim groove at RITT+O
Pillar of the Community
Australia
2180 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2013  06:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mr T to your friends list
Yeah okay, and does that Sydney figure include the ones supposedly struck in 1921 too?
I'm not surprised it wasn't the real deal but you never know.
Pillar of the Community
Australia
852 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2013  07:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nealeffendi to your friends list
Mr T
The Sydney Mint figures include the pennies struck in 1921. On 8/1/1921 80 bags went to store and on 15/1/1921 41 and 4/5 bags went to store. Note that 4/5 bag was the only one I noted that was an incomplete bag over the production run.
they didn't get new dies until 1924.
And 1924 is another mess to sort out with the leftover dies.
Pillar of the Community
Australia
2180 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2013  07:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mr T to your friends list
Ah thanks.
By the way, was http://www.ebay.com/itm/1920-LONDON...047675.l2557 a dot over bottom scroll London die and did someone get a very good deal?
Pillar of the Community
Australia
852 Posts
 Posted 08/10/2013  08:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nealeffendi to your friends list
Mr T
That penny is a Dot Below (it has the groove above ITT+O).
And I should have it in a few more days Price was OK (it is a cleaned coin).
When I get another Dot Above English it will be
Pillar of the Community
Australia
2180 Posts
 Posted 08/11/2013  03:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mr T to your friends list
Oh good, that makes me feel a bit better about missing it.
I thought it looked cleaned too but the price was okay.
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1041 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2013  11:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Basil to your friends list
My brother recently received this 1920 Coin,English Obverse,no dots to be seen but has die crack thru. IND,is it a filled die dot under? TIA

Australian-1920-Double-Dot-Penny

Australian-1920-Double-Dot-Penny
Pillar of the Community
Australia
852 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2013  06:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nealeffendi to your friends list
Hi Basil
The coin is a dot under.
I last week went through 56 coins from this obverse die and the dot and/or a microscopic die marker on the reverse identified all but 3 as coming from the same reverse, the remaining 3 were too grimy/battered to spot either the dot or the die marker. The odds are against the No Dot English existing.
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1041 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2013  07:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Basil to your friends list
Thanks,i thought i'd make sure.
Valued Member
Australia
112 Posts
 Posted 10/14/2013  02:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tim Bowden to your friends list
Hi Neal, Mr T, others.

Just a quick note to say that I had seen the earlier comments, and actually agree that the coin imaged on my resource site is likely to be a 'dot below' that has become a 'no dot' by means of die fill error, but what has now become commonly known as the 'no dot' through publication, pricing guides, and the passing of time.

When putting the site together, I am trying to get images up first, then go back and fill in descriptions. I have not been able to do so at the rate I would like to, but do find moments when I can add and update content.

It had always been my intention to qualify the images of the 'no dot', both Indian and London, as likely die fills, however I had not put descriptions with images. I had also wanted to let the dust settle to get more input before adding the description, however haven't prioritised it, due to time constraints.

A friend of mine gave me a nudge today, which brought it back to mind, and it also pointed out to me that incomplete information is mis-information, so I have done the descriptions and qualifiers for the 1920 'no dots'.

I have addressed the issue with my opinion, and referred those wanting more information on the Neal's other thread.

1920 no dots, does it exist?

Once the revision has finished uploading (4-5 hours .....), I will post the link.

Please understand that my resource site is intended to provide basic information from which people can then expand and learn through more knowledgeable sources.

Regards,

Tim Bowden
TDK APDC

www.tdkapdc.com.au
Valued Member
Australia
112 Posts
 Posted 10/14/2013  06:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tim Bowden to your friends list
Further to last, my resource site has finally uploaded the update.

1920 Australian Penny, no dot, London obverse

I have added a description with my perspective, and a link back to Neal's 1920 London thread, as I think it qualifies well what I am trying to present with my description, and provokes thought and consideration for those interested in finding out more.

Once again, I see my resource site as a starting point for collectors, rather than anything else.

If someone finds it useful - well good.

If people wish to debate finer points or express different opinions, well the forums are a great place to share views and perspectives, and for all to learn.

Thank you for all for sharing your knowledge and expertise.

Regards,

Tim Bowden
TDK APDC
Pillar of the Community
Australia
852 Posts
 Posted 10/16/2013  01:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nealeffendi to your friends list
Hi Tim
Good update on your website.
You have a typo there in the spelling of Indian.
The No Dot Indian probably does exist (but only from about 5 FBL dies) but there are those who think ALL no dots (including the Indian)are die fill.
Neal
Valued Member
Australia
112 Posts
 Posted 10/16/2013  05:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tim Bowden to your friends list
Woops - Thanks Neal - I'll sort that out shortly.
Pillar of the Community
Australia
908 Posts
 Posted 10/17/2013  11:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stevo1962 to your friends list


This is one of the 1920 varieties that I have noodled over the last couple of days.To me it looks like a dot over
bottom scroll

Australian-1920-Double-Dot-Penny

Australian-1920-Double-Dot-Penny

Australian-1920-Double-Dot-Penny

Australian-1920-Double-Dot-Penny
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