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The Canadian Law And Buying/Selling/Recieving Of Counterfeit

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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2427 Posts
 Posted 09/01/2013  6:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add darryldarryl to your friends list
@ Tom Goodheart...Counterfeits work well in a Fairy tale society only. We all know what goes on in the real world. Like the old saying goes, "It only takes a few bad apples."
Edited by darryldarryl
09/01/2013 6:04 pm
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Canada
9865 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  11:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list
@nickelsguy,
Have you had any response from the RCNA yet?
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2301 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  12:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsguy to your friends list
The RCNA will be amending.
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Canada
9865 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  12:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list
Thank you! It's a big step in the right direction.I'm sure this will also impact the CAND as most are RCNA members.We'll see how dealers like CA respond if they can no longer sell coins marked "COPY"
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
Edited by DBM
09/02/2013 12:57 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2301 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  3:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsguy to your friends list
Colonial Acres was informed by the RCMP in 2010 and have had their memory refreshed. I doubt they would like to be the test case.
Bedrock of the Community
Canada
10743 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  4:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SHAFTA9a to your friends list

Quote:
Colonial Acres was informed by the RCMP in 2010 and have had their memory refreshed.


If the RCMP informed CA they were selling 'copy' coins ..why were they still permitted to sell them.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  8:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list
Its becoming very obvious that the RCM does not care too much about this issue of counterfeiting, they don't monitor ebay, the internet or even a few Canadian dealers, it seems like a few members here do most of the policing and getting these fakes stopped. If you have a patent or copyright being infringed, its your own obligations to start a complaint and legal process to stop the fakes, not leaving this to your customers.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1581 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2013  2:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dialog_gvf to your friends list

I do not object to the concept of a replica. But, in my opinion, to be considered:

* The original die should have "copy" or "replica" or some special mark (e.g. indicating composition) as part of the original design elements.
* Any minting from an alternative die without the design element, or misrepresentation of composition, would make all mintings from the maker ineligible for sale

The replicas are going to be made. The sensible thing to do is provide some legal path that encourages and rewards proper behaviour on the part of makers and sellers.


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2301 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2013  3:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsguy to your friends list
The only way to stop the unscrupulous who WILL attempt to modify and sell them for real is to make them illegal which they are now.
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Canada
2427 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2013  9:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add darryldarryl to your friends list
@john100... The guy who had the patent on sawing a women in half should have retired a wealthy man however he spent his fortunes tracking down and suing people for illegally copying his trick and eventually ended up broke.

I think the mint should flex its muscle occasionally however lets think about the cost of legal process and we can see why the Mint stays far away from the issue.
Just my humble opinion :)
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2013  10:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list
Only the mints Mr. Bennet have the political power to contact Mr. Harper and inturn contact his Chinese counterpart and relay why allowing counterfeit industries to operate with government approval does know one any good. There is no other G20 nation that allows open counterfeiting industry to occur. I am sure the RCM has a large full time legal department as I mentioned before they track down people for releasing early coin photos and they have no time for this counterfeit issue. I still commend the efforts of everyone for keeping any fakes off the market, but the big effort has to be done by the RCM.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
937 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2013  10:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pennysaver to your friends list
nickelsguy; I doubt anyone knows half the work you do in your efforts to educate us lowly masses and to aid our law-enforcement officers in your crusade against the counterfeiters (well, maybe your wife has an inkling!), and I for one applaud your efforts long and heartily. I used to feel the same as some others on this thread that it was okay to allow the manufacture of coins with the word "copy", "replica", etc, but I have seen first hand the damage that that type of thinking can do. I used to be the manager of a fairly large antique mall a number of years back, and I remember when the ROM put out a line of replica goblets in a fairly scarce pattern, which they were selling in their gift shop for $25 each. Each goblet had the ROM marking molded in glass on the base, but aside from that they were exact replicas. The real 1880 goblets were selling for $1200 or so, so those who liked the pattern but couldn't afford the real deal bought up the copies in sets of 4, 6, etc. The next thing you know, over the next year or two these copies starting showing up in the antique stores at huge prices, each with their respective ROM marks carefully ground off the base. No matter how I tried to explain to new buyers and vendors alike when I saw one of these copies that it WAS a copy, I was often seen as a troublemaker. The name-calling didn't bother me, but it would break your heart to see a new collector just starting out getting stung by one of these fakes, and when they finally found out it was often enough to through them off collecting altogether, which was a true shame. A possible lifetime hobby squashed by some self-serving rat. I'm now totally against any of these so-called "legitimate" copies, and now IMHO any coin that can be altered by such a simple means as wearing, gouging, filing, filling, etc should not be allowed.

Sorry for being so long-winded but it is how I feel. I mean no offense to anyone on this forum, I respect you all, but fakery is hurtful to everyone. I've seen too many people stung and turned off a good thing by it.

Chris
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1581 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2013  1:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dialog_gvf to your friends list
The mint certainly would want to be involved with counterfeit NCLT, but much of what is out there is counterfeits of actual fiat from the past.

They handed the coins over to the BoC and it would be BoC's/Minister of Revenue's job to fight such things, same as counterfeit bills.

I'm pretty sure people would be horrified by the RCM having a vested interest in collector business strikes much beyond the current year. Would they have legal obligation to mark a restrike as such?

We know that on occasion they strike the previous year's date and report it in the current calendar year production numbers.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
548 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2013  4:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lyradnoj to your friends list
I am curious - wouldn't the actual filing the 'copy/replica/duplicate' mark off of a coin make that coin pretty much uncollectable anyway?

And as for expecting the Chinese government to care, remember that the people who are most being taken advantage of by such fraudulent practices are the citizens of China. If their government doesn't care about their own people being ripped off - and they clearly don't - why would they care about us?
Edited by lyradnoj
09/08/2013 4:05 pm
Valued Member
Canada
84 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2013  7:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add canadtech to your friends list
a while ago I saw, mixed in with various common coins in a dealers display case,
a 1921 50 cent piece ! my heart started pounding !
until I saw "copy", then I was rather annoyed.
wonder if they still have it, will check next time....
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