The Canadian Law And Buying/Selling/Recieving Of Counterfeit

My goodness.. What a topic. Lots of good points like,, any counterfeit coin is wrong, illegal, immoral. Whether producing, possessing, or selling. After reading through the last 5 pages I had so many comments that I am just going to lay them out without referencing them back to the original quotes.

1. I think the statement made about the RCMP "not understanding what counterfeit is" was an uninformed response. Having a team dedicated to making the Coin World a safer, less fraudulent place, and studying with experts to increase their knowledge to inform the public should be applauded. If it wasn't for the work of these people more of us would be taken for a ride.
2. People aren't just selling fakes to trick others... They might just not be aware of the laws surrounding them.
3. I think the dangers of stamped replicas has been pointed out numerous times.. tumble, tumble... Now it is real. These coins are near exact replicas. Stamped or Not. Design, size, denomination, color bang on.. usually just weight/content is off.
4. It is still illegal to possess a counterfeit, so even if someone is not aware that their coin is fake and is not tried under the criminal code or convicted, it can still be confiscated.
5. No the RCMP do not make the law,, but they do enforce the established law to the best of their abilities.
6. There is no excuse when it says "copy" on the coin. You know it's fake, end of story. It is illegal to possess.
7. Coin dealers selling known fakes is an issue. They should know the laws and abide.
8. Coins marked copy are still a medium of exchange IMO because they are usually key dates, measured by value, sell more than for face value, and can have precious metal content. And as a key date shouldn't lose value. Plus they can be altered easily to mimic the real deal.
9. Falling under the barter sysytem with a fake coin would depend on if the coin was being bartered for its face value of 50 cents or its value as a currency piece for $2000.. Which would then be fraudulent.
10. In regards to this 1973 supreme court case... As stated, He believed they were real with no intent to sell, that probably saved his rear end. If there was no concrete evidence to the contrary then not much can be done. That does not mean they weren't taken away, Or that another judge would have convicted him, or a different lawyer could have done a horrible job representing him. That is the justice system.. The criminal code in relation to article 450 was revised in 1985 and amended in 2013.... The laws could have been different in 1973 which would make the ruling irrelevent as a comparison piece to todays law.


Just my 2 cents....

If this forum was labled "The Fake Coin Community Forum" I would not have joined. Likewise "The Replica Coin "Community Forum" or The really good Copy Coin Community Forum". I want the real thing. If anyone wants to own fake coins why not start your own forum. ed

ed - Not everyone is going to collect the same things. I don't collect American coins, but I still joined the forum. I don't collect copies, but that doesn't mean that some people shouldn't be able to. Further, this discussion shouldn't be around what interests people have, it should be around whether or not copies should be legal.

Generally, as a Brit coin collector, I agree with the sentiments in this thread, in that modern replicas/copies of coins damage the hobby when sold as the genuine article.

However I would mention (I guess I'm playing Devil's Advocate here) that whenever coins have been made, people have copied them for gain.

From ancient Athens, copper coins of George III of England, right through to today's fake £1 coins, people have made copies of coins in circulation.

In many instances the punishment for doing so was severe and you'd be lucky just to lose a limb or two.

Sometimes copies were official, but for expediency. Many early British (Celtic) coins were based on Greek coinage designs because that style of coinage was widely accepted around the known world. Look at mediaeval European coinage and you'll see similarities in style from one country to another. Dollars/Thalers/Crowns are all the same size and weight because that way they could be traded internationally.

During the mid-1700s there was so little small change in England that merchants and shop owners made their own, often similar in size and appearance to the Regal (official) issues. If they had not then trade would have been near impossible as there just wasn't enough genuine coinage in circulation and people would have had no means to buy small value items!

If you banish all 'counterfeit, replica or copy coins' then you lose an opportunity to research this interesting area of numismatics and contemporary history.

Where a 'contemporary counterfeit' and interesting numismatic study crosses to a troublesome fake ... well, that's less clear perhaps. Just throwing that in there for debate if anyone likes!

Tom
I don't know much in regards to ancients or the 1700's English coins and I appreciate your input. My concern with those coins would be the same as well. People passing fakes as legitimate ancients or vice versa and people overpaying lots of money for the wrong item. As well when you said "if all counterfeit coins are banished you lose the ability to research that area of history" I can understand that point from the 1700's when it sounded rampant as a means to survive. I also feel that people having a full album with 1 or 2 holes in it lays down the opportunity to wonder why there is that hole in the album and to research it. And when someone looks at your album and says "your missing one" you can explain why there isn't a coin there versus having a full album and no one even realizing that there is a spot for a rare, expensive piece because a fake is in its spot thus creating no conversation. So I guess what I'm saying is that I feel the opportunity to know that history still can remain without counterfeits floating.

When the toonie was counterfeited, there was immediate attention by the government and RCMP but with these new copies of nclt coins coming it will only hurt collectors. We are paying 100.00 a coin that when the copies arrive will be bullion value. The RCM is the only one that can start process to get the RCMP and CBSA involved, they own the copyrights. Do you think Apple would allow an iphone fake with the word copy stamped on it, as in this example the harmed party has to start the process. Where do you think these fakes maple leafs and nclts coins are goimg to be sold? in China

@ Tom Goodheart...Counterfeits work well in a Fairy tale society only. We all know what goes on in the real world. Like the old saying goes, "It only takes a few bad apples."

The RCNA will be amending.