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My Cheap Point And Shoot Setup

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 Posted 09/02/2013  11:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list
Nice setup and nice pics. I'm particularly pleased to see that you can fill a good portion of the sensor with the coin, such that you are able to downsize the image significantly for web viewing. Also, you have a very decent working distance to get lights in. These are reasons I went the DSLR route, but it seems your P&S does the trick. What is the working distance between coin and camera in your setup? Regarding the photos, I'm especially happy to see your comparison of direct vs diffused lighting. You've shown the extremes of the range nicely.

I'm curious if anyone has made a list of P&S cameras such as this one which are truly suitable for coin pics, ie which have sufficient working distance while still being able to fill the frame (or nearly fill it) with the coin. SD?

Ahh...forgot to ask...what size coin is that? What happens with smaller coins with this setup, are you able to keep a good proportion of the frame filled?
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
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 Posted 09/02/2013  12:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wiggam007 to your friends list
Very cool DIY set up!
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 Posted 09/03/2013  8:54 pm  Show Profile   Check wheatiefan's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add wheatiefan to your friends list
I am glad to see my setup was well received.
I hope others will try to build setups that work for them.

Like we've said before, a few simple things can greatly improve your images. Learn your camera settings, steady the camera, use a timer, use consistent lighting (not the flash), etc. . .

Most of my coins are 'junk' with a value of less than $0.50, which is why I find it hard to justify spending so much on a new camera.
In my case I had the camera, plywood, screws, and jug. The only additional costs were $2 for the hardware and $4 for felt.

I was surprised to find that the standard camera threads are the same that you can find at every hardware/walmart/grocery store. I think they are standard 1/4" 20tpi. I would have thought they were a special hard to find size. Once you have the mounting hardware the next step is building a stand.

The milkjug does its job. I'd like to have some diffusers that clip onto the jansjo lights but am too lazy to come up with any alternatives.

The threaded rod has a plastic insert at the top. I think it was to cushion electric wires. It doesn't show up too well in the pictures. But this protects the coin from metal-on-metal contact.
I kinda like the hollow rod, as it helps when taking pix of coins with holes in the center. This is not a concern for USA-only collectors. Here is a holed coin from my previous setup. There I used a plastic drywall anchor. I would have to spend time editing out the plastic showing in the center. Now with the hollow threaded rod that is not necessary.
My-Cheap-Point-And-Shoot-Setup

The lens is approximately 6.5-7 inches from the coin.
This is with the camera zoomed-in 90-100%, allowing room for lights. I usually zoom in 100% then have to back up a little.
If I get any closer, the auto-focus doesn't work. So although I could put the coin 3 or 5 inches away, I'd have to zoom in less, making for the same ultimate size.

The Queen Victoria coin is a penny, at 31mm. The Vitt Em III (an Italian 2 Lire) coin is slightly smaller at 29mm.

The total image size off the camera is roughly 1700x2300 pixels. Silver dollars come out ~1400-1500 pixels across, which I consider 'filling the sensor'. But with smaller coins the image size goes down. Half dollar sized coins are 1200ish pixels, and the smallest (smaller than a dime) coins are maybe 700ish pixels. Good enough for sharing on the web or ebay, but definitely not filling the sensor.

I think my camera takes acceptable pictures. I remember reading a thread by SsDd where he said he tested another CCF member's camera at a coin show and was impressed at the images. IIRC, that camera was also a point-and-shoot Olympus.
I once borrowed a newer 14-16 megapixel Sony camera, assuming it would take similar quality pictures but with higher resolution. I was disappointed.
So between my experience and SsDd's comments maybe we can place the early-2000s Olympus point-and-shoots in the 'good enough' category.

I do have some complaints. The timer is set at 10 seconds and not adjustable. This means at top speed I can image the front and back of less than 3 coins a minute. Keep in mind that I may have dozens or 100s to take at a time. Also I have to constantly change the rechargable batteries, which means I have to reprogram all the settings. I can't see the images until transferring them to the computer. So the more I read about the tethering and live-view cameras the better they sound.

Like I said I'm imaging most of my collection, mostly for my personal use but maybe for sharing on the web.
For now I save the cropped, full size, 100% quality, jpegs on my hard drive. These are roughly 1mb in size. I keep backups on google drive which is free up to 5GB. If I intend on sharing them I downsize them to 800-1000pixels and 100-300kb each.

I wonder if in a few years I will be disappointed in 800-1200 pixel jpegs, just like we now look at small GIF images as outdated. I guess time will tell.

-wheatiefan
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 Posted 09/03/2013  9:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list
I haven't done any real specific research on the topic, nothing satisfying any kind of academic rigor. It's been my general impression, though, that your best bet for a cheap point-and-shoot for coins is going to be older than newer. With the ever-increasing zoom ranges and megapixel counts, these little sensors and lenses are being pushed to ever-greater compromises which show up first in macro photography.

All of the earlier P&S's I owned would turn out decent coin images: Canon A60, Minolta Z2, Canon S2-IS. The last one which worked in a fashion I considered satisfactory for coins was my 2008-era Canon A720.

Almost every newer P&S is going to have a macro focus range which would allow you to almost fill the sensor with a coin. The trouble is (as Ray mentions), sensor fill reduces with working distance, and nothing really offers working distances over 100mm with appreciable sensor coverage. All you can do is live with the distance that gets you an acceptable original size on the sensor - I personally define that as about 1200px diameter for a Morgan-sized coin, and anything smaller is proportionally less on the sensor - and figure out lighting to match.
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 Posted 09/03/2013  11:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list
Very nice results! A lot of p/s cameras have good macro capabilities.
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 Posted 09/04/2013  8:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add clearsig to your friends list
Wheatiefan, this is a fascinating and very useful post! Congratulations on all the creative effort you've put into thinking out your setup, and thanks for taking the trouble to explain it in such a readable and interesting way.

I have a home made setup that simply uses a Canon Powershot A630 with adjustable angle monitor (still available on ebay for $60 or less) and a mini tripod bought at a yard sale, plus two desk lamps. The resulting photos have proved sufficient for my needs, but after studying your methods I'm inspired to continue seeking improvements. Excelsior!


My-Cheap-Point-And-Shoot-Setup
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 Posted 09/05/2013  01:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mdpmedia to your friends list

Quote:
I want a copy stand, but have a hard time parting with the $


I realize that many feel that USB photography of coins is like the 1955 LHC poor man's double die compared to cameras that have adjustable ISO and aperture settings etc.

With the USB devices, however, no need exists to change the film speed which is analogous to altering the ISO...

In any case the following thread,

https://goccf.com/t/88598

may prove helpful to address some of the ideas involved with a USB camera setup connected to an adjustable tripod stand.

I am hopeful that you all should find at least a couple of ideas or concepts useful toward attaining inexpensive but effective photography of coins involving a USB camera with an adjustable tripod stand that would replace the need for a copy stand.

fyi,
mdpmedia
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 Posted 09/06/2013  02:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add austrokiwi to your friends list

Quote:
I do like the DIY threads as in this instance I want a copy stand, but have a hard time parting with the $ instead of using it for coins :)


If you don't want to go the USB Microscope route( Mine will soon be going in the rubbish as I develop a bellows set up( learn't about in this web site)) If you haven't seen it already( scroll down in the thread and you will see what can be done with a cheap enlarger stand):
https://goccf.com/t/154003
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 Posted 09/14/2013  07:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add r9453 to your friends list
Thank you wheatiefan for a great idea. I haven't got the coin stand in place yet, I thought I might try a wooden dowel.

My-Cheap-Point-And-Shoot-Setup

Also, I don't have a diffuser but I'm happy with my day's work:

My-Cheap-Point-And-Shoot-Setup
Edited by r9453
09/14/2013 07:27 am
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 Posted 09/14/2013  09:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list
Nice, but I have to say that the steel bolt "table" scares me because of the chances of scratching. Allow me to introduce Sugru (http://www.sugru.com). Sugru is a moldable air-cured silicone. You shape it using fingers (or other objects - I usually wear latex gloves because of the no-fingerprint for several day effect). But a wet finger works wonderfully. Use it to form a small, soft, inert table:

My-Cheap-Point-And-Shoot-Setup

My-Cheap-Point-And-Shoot-Setup

The only thing you have to do is get the surface flat. I use a sheet of aluminum foil and some olive oil (Once cured, wash in soap & water so there's no residue). Screw a small bolt in and use a small bubble level to ensure it's level. When it cures, unscrew the bolt and you now have a "whatsit".
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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 Posted 09/14/2013  3:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list
Nice.
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 Posted 09/14/2013  6:41 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list
This thread has given me an idea. I too have a 10 year old Olympus 500UZ.
I'm going to do this. Thanks! I will use a nut on top as SsuperDdave suggested but I will use earthquake putty to hold coin cause yeah, sitting on that bolt alone scares me.
swcoin.ecrater.com
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 Posted 09/14/2013  10:49 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list
BTW, what kind of lights are those and where did you get them?
I have a white LED, it's okay but my copper looks to light in color..not really near natural color.
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 Posted 09/15/2013  1:46 pm  Show Profile   Check wheatiefan's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add wheatiefan to your friends list
If you search the forum for 'Jansjo' you'll find plenty of information. They are from Ikea (the store or online). For the longest time they were on sale for $10 each, but even the full retail is only $12-15. The good thing about them is their color temperature is consistent. If you set your white balance to tungsten/incandescent the color turns out well.

I knew the bolt was an iffy idea, and people are right to be concerned about it. In the next rebuild I will use something different.

-wheatiefan
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 Posted 09/15/2013  10:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add r9453 to your friends list
Thank again wheatiefan, I thought I might try some kinda plastic tubing for the coin mount?
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