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Replies: 25 / Views: 4,469 |
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New Member
 United States
39 Posts |
So maybe you can help me with a question superdave. Say I have a Morgan with a date that has a known number of VAM's found on them- does this mean that all pieces from that date from that mint have all the same VAM's on them? Will my piece have those VAM's on them? If so, many of them are commonplace no? Now also would my purchase of a USB microscope (waiting for its arrival) help in seeing these VAM's or did I just waste my money? Finally, if some of these VAM's are so commonplace, if in fact they are, why are certain pieces rarer and thus more expensive then any of the same type of coins? Thanks for the help! A
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2885 Posts |
Quote: It is the single greatest collaborative research in the history of numismatics. Nothing like this has ever been attempted before - not on this scale That's probably true for US coinage. But if you take a wander into ancients and the Roman imperial Coinage catalogs - or their many many derivatives you'll find masses and masses of work on die parings that's been going on for centuries.
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Forgive the delay, Anthony; I work long shifts and weird hours, and go a couple days at a time without being able to access the forum. One numbered VAM is one Morgan dollar variety. Its' features are unique to that date, mint mark and die pair.* Each date/MM combination uses the same numbering system, starting with VAM-1, so for instance an 1880-O VAM-2 has nothing whatsoever to do with an 1886-P VAM-2. And although some differing VAMs within one year issue might share characteristics - die pairs changed, and sometimes one obverse die (for example) was used with two reverse dies, so that would create two VAMs - no two different VAMs will ever be exactly alike. Now, let's discuss values, keeping in mind that a coin's street value is a function of both supply and demand. Demand is why a 1909-S VDB Lincoln sells for so much, when they're seemingly a glut on the market. So it is with rarer VAMs. The 1878 issue year has a large fan base, and extensive research has been done over years on them. New VAMs are still being identified with regularity (one or two a year), but much of the knowledgebase for that year is relatively stable since their popularity has led to such complete research. The scarcer 1878's are known rarities and therefore command higher premiums among a large collector base, leading to expensive coins. Now, show me the rarest 1904-O VAM - there could only be two or three known - and I won't pay you as much as I might for that 1878 with 20 known. It's not in demand for me; there's too little competition. I do not believe that there are as many as 25 individuals who are seriously attempting to collect a large portion of known VAMs. There are nearly 5000 known VAMs; that's a pretty big job. * Originally, Messrs. Van Allen and Mallis codified their VAMs by features rather than specific die pairs. They had accurate information regarding the number of dies prepared - over 3500 pairs for the total Morgan mintage, not including 1921 - and given that hub production was at a level of accuracy previously unequalled in US coin production, I'm guessing they figured that identifying individual die pairs was a futile task. Nowadays, most of those doing serious VAM research are, in fact, identifying specific die pairs. This is leading to, in addition to the finding of new VAMs, the consolidation of old designations which turned out to be the same die pair, and expansion of others for which more than one die pair was identified. Not all VAMs are nice enough to identify themselves with special, unique markings like die gouges, doubled lettering or odd date/mint mark locations. Sometimes, very small differences in tiny marks inside the devices of the die are all that differentiates two VAMs. This is where VAMming becomes tedious and academic, and the ultimate reward for that work will never be other than basic knowledge. The overwhelming majority of VAMs are unlikely to ever be worth more than "standard" Morgan prices. There are a very few, however, which will fetch thousands in circulated condition. And it's a virtual certainty that every example of each of them has not yet been discovered.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
Quote: There are a very few, however, which will fetch thousands in circulated condition. And it's a virtual certainty that every example of each of them has not yet been discovered. And a big reason I keep soldiering on, gotta find that next big one! I've found 1878-S Long Nock, a couple of 1878-P 8TF VAM 9's and 2 1901-P VAM 3 shifted eagles! One is in an details AU holder, the other was unfortunately polished  I was spending my early days of VAMing looking pretty much exclusively at 8TF VAMs, then I decided to branch out and collect some others. My mentor has finished his 7TF set and is now upgrading them to PCGS and as high of grade as he can find and afford. Don't know if I'll go that far though. I do like the challenge of looking for them in junk dollar bins at the coin shows though. Lately I've been getting more into EACs than VAMs and have been considering selling some VAMs off to get some EACs, it never ends does it? 
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
@Westcoin, I had a pleasant discovery the other day going through my Morgans I purchased a long time ago. (pre VAMming days) It's a 1878-S VAM27 in maybe EF40 condition.  
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1551 Posts |
Tony, what has been said is all correct as I knew it would be. Welcome to CCF as well V W !  Something to keep in mind is over there many questions have been asked so many times the a few members may have a short fuse. It's just part of life and you can place "Key Words" in the search box and do a bit of research on your own from time to time. I myself would like to  to both worlds!
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
VAMworld is Ground Zero for VAMming, but it's honestly not a place I'd recommend for someone just getting into VAMming.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1551 Posts |
Dave, I would agree 95% of the time on this. Some of the fishes over there have teeth! Lord knows I made my share of errors over there when I started. 
Edited by twohawks 10/17/2013 6:19 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
I recommend everyone interested in VAMming should at least lurk over on VAMworld. I still do. 
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Pillar of the Community
743 Posts |
There are atleast 2 guys named John that are stand up guys and usually there to help newbies. That's how I got started but I agree it is no place for a newbie unless they are good at swimming with sharks.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1551 Posts |
I know a guy named Russ over there and he doesn't bite. 
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Quote: I know a guy named Russ over there and he doesn't bite.
No, but his intensity can be scary sometimes, and he's singlehandedly ruining E clashes for the rest of us because he not only seems to want them all, but he also seems to be successfully finding them all.  VAMworld's status as the "high ground" for VAMming is one of the reasons for the existence of this forum. It's our intent here to deliberately welcome and nurture the new VAMmer, helping to relieve VAMworld of that burden. It's a Godsend that there's been cross-pollination the other way - VAMworld regulars also posting here - but we don't want this forum to duplicate or in any way take from what's happening at VAMworld.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
Quote: No, but his intensity can be scary sometimes, and he's singlehandedly ruining E clashes for the rest of us because he not only seems to want them all, but he also seems to be successfully finding them all. I read that as his "insanity" can be scary at times!  Quote: @Westcoin, I had a pleasant discovery the other day going through my Morgans I purchased a long time ago. (pre VAMming days) It's a 1878-S VAM27 in maybe EF40 condition. Very cool Dave - wonderful find!! 
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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Pillar of the Community
743 Posts |
I was going to mention you to Russ. There are a few other guys that are also very helpful. This is one of the guys you should watch out for.  Just kidding. But seriously all is not as it appears over there sometimes.
Edited by 7TF 10/20/2013 9:12 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1551 Posts |
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