Ebay Allows Fakes If It's "An Ashton Coin"?

When I click on it it goes to ebay UK not ebay USA - it probably depends where you are. I'm not entirely sure about the way the various ebay's interlink - I know they are all separate entities with varying degrees of interweaving. Sometimes listing on one site, providing you tick a box, can automatically show it on another. I think this particular example must have been listed in the UK site as it shows nice round UK pounds values and then can be viewed from the US one.

Again - just because they are illegal in one jurisdiction doesn't mean they are illegal in another (while we may all wish it to be so). From an administrative point of view this must be a nightmare for interjuristictional companies such as ebay.

As it currently stands there is no requirement for replica coins to be listed on ebay UK with the word copy on them (I'd actually quite like MODERN replicas to have this imposed from ebay UK - if this were possible - though I don't know how you would define "modern"). The grey area is if these are visible on sites such as the US which has that restriction. This seems to be an issue for ebay to either prevent that linking or change the policy on one or other of the sites.

I do acknowledge this is very difficult for ebay. Banning all replicas / counterfeits is the way the US site policy has gone, though others haven't, and I don't think there is a right answer. I'm glad the UK ebay hasn't done this because I'm interested in contemporary medieval counterfeits as well as ancients.

There are a group of people who "police" ebay for bad coins - one is a member here - but they can't see everything or be everywhere and it's not always possible to make a call from a photo anyway. So while it's easy to look at some Asian copies and pull them, for others it's not so easy.

I buy a lot from the German ebay and the thaler section is riddled with fakes so you need to be very careful, but forewarned is forearmed in that particular market. I also buy from ebay India - not so many fakes but some sellers do have an escrow service which aids in ensuring you actually get the coin/s. I've never had an issue of not getting what was in the ebay image. The basic problem with all of these, even escrow, is that if you get the coin (or stamp) you expected and don't see anything wrong with it you'll might never be aware it's a dud.

I'd like to see all the fake making factories smashed and those who hawk them everywhere (not just on ebay) punished, but until the source countries can be persuaded to play ball it's a defensive action against the sellers. Banning proven fake sellers is part of the answer, certainly, which ebay currently does (a huge but not the only market) but I'd like to see the authorities in all juristictions take more of an interest - I think that is the key battle ground to win next.

Please elaborate - I do not understand you use of the "hilarious" symbol.

Well Canadian sellers can break rules that US sellers have to follow and they show up right next to ours in searches. I see it every day and when you report them you're told it's allowed because they live in Canada and have different rules.

Bobby, are you thinking of listings that would be considered illegal across certain borders, or just violations of ebay's "house rules" for listing sales? After all, ebay is the Big Dog and they can probably interpret their own rules any way they they choose, whether we as participants agree or not.

But ebay and the sellers cannot ignore violations of the law - ebay is big, but not that big. However, in reality, they really have ignored illegal sales in the past. In a fair and honest society there are consequences for ebay's sins of omission, and at least once - involving fake Gucci bags - they were slapped down in court, but more often nothing is done. Which is really sad, because if ebay was just a little bit proactive they could provide a much safer environment for buying and selling, and honest buyers and sellers, and ebay in the long run, would benefit. Short term corporate gains are not always the best answer.

And no, it would not be cost prohibitive for ebay to take a few baby steps towards protection. Many large companies, for example, use "secret shoppers". (My sister was one, in fact.)

ebay has often allowed known bad sellers who game the system to return, after being banned for, say, a month, but does no follow-up to see if they have become honest sellers - and many just go back to repeat their previous activities. In Coins, for example, sellers who used generic images of tokens marked "COPY", for example, but shipped tokens that were unmarked, often manage to return with no oversight. That's just plain wrong.

(My solution in that case would be to permanently ban those who in intentionally game the system - but if ebay chooses to let them return, part of their profits should be escrowed, plus an extra "enforcement fee" be paid by them to cover the cost of tracking their sales, which could simply involve random purchases from their auctions.)

Folks, if your grocer was discovered intentionally selling tainted meat to you and your friends, how easy would it be to trust him back in the marketplace without a bit of oversight?

I'm just saying...

-Duncan

Youre dancing around the issue and have completely ignored everything I said. Thats not even an example of what youre talking about. Thats a deceptive listing where buyer protection would refund the money.

I dont know how you draw the conclusion that its okay to deceive people from anything I said.

As I said in my last post your solution means ebay no longer allows international sales. Too many countries have too many different rules. There are in fact countries that dont allow their coins to leave their country without permission even if theyre real. That means no coins can ever be sold internationally real or fake anywhere because its not legal there

Theres a HUGE difference between trying to pass counterfits off as real (which is already banned everywhere on ebay) like your example and sellers selling fakes clearly stating they are which is really what the issue is about.




At the same time lets not blow it out of proportion either they arent selling uranium on the black market. No ones getting extradited because of the hobby protection act. Its hard enough to get known murders brought to the states for a trial from a friendly country, no ones being turned over for selling some fake coins.

Yes some of it is that the government has better things to worry about, but again were talking about people who are selling fakes that describe them as such. If people didnt collect fakes there wouldnt be information sources and research about them available which would actually make the problem 10 times worse if only the TPGs were allowed to keep a database.

People collect fakes for a variety of reasons, a lot of those reasons generally lead back to the same conclusion that their efforts help protect other people from them. So yes if someone in the UK has a fake and someone in the US wants to buy it for their collection to add to the knowledge base around it as far as I'm concerned its fine. All laws arent equal, and again common sense needs to be applied which is something we no longer do these days.




So a UK seller is expected to know the laws of the US and Europe and anywhere else hes shipping?

Again back to my post two posts ago theres no way to filter out listings country by country like that. People get around the filters every day, theres only so many people you can have looking at probably millions of items listed daily and those people certainly dont have law degrees and a working knowledge of every countries law.

My point being the ones listing them as fakes and being honest arent the ones to be worried about and wasting time reporting. Its the ones who are passing them off a real that should get the attention. Every second ebay spends enforcing rules against an honest seller accurately describing something is a second that a dishonest seller is getting no attention.

A compromise may be to have a fake/copy coin section added where you know exactly what youre looking at when browsing those listings.




They would have if a claim had been filed.

By no means am I excusing the behavior of a dishonest seller, but at the same time if youre buying 73K worth of something there is an aspect of personal responsibility to examine what you get when it gets there.

But again this is an example of a dishonest seller running a fraudulent listing which is illegal and banned by ebay already. The coin in question in this thread clearly stated it was a copy and even put it in larger font in the description. The honest seller describing something as a copy is in no way equal to the dishonest one trying to pass a fake off as real. A distinction should absolutely be made between the two.

Its impossible to actually have a discussion about it when you resort to reply's like this or your other reply about is it okay to send almost 80k worth of fake stamps they said was real.

Bottom line a buyer is responsible for knowing the laws of their country/area when making a purchase. You cant have it both ways where you want ebay not allow sellers to sell something because another country has a law against it, but are fine with ignoring the fact that would basically mean the end of international sales when you combine all the different laws for a single standard.