Absurd PCGS Details Grading W/ Pics

True dat

The 1849 looks much better in hand than the pics. It also looks a darker brown with rainbow colors. Believe me, (in hand) if that coin has been cleaned then so has almost every single higher grade Seated quarter I've ever seen gets a details holder.

I mentioned not having pics, but my BU 1891 has nearly as much luster as a modern ATB Quarter. I could place imaginary ants on that thing a see-saw them back and forth on the cartwheel. UNC details is a rare grade as it is. The few I've seen were all old cleaning pieces where a collector form a previous generation probably wanted their BU piece untoned and white. They were all obvious. My piece would represent the best UNC details coin I've ever seen in my entire life. I don't even know how many hundreds I lost on that designation-depends on what the UNC is...63, 64?

Then, of course, in the same exact submission I get a grade on two coins where I am pretty certain they have been cleaned. Come on. I know my 1869 is a very rare coin and is now a pop 1 for the grade, but it's been cleaned, seriously. The 1853/4 is also rare, but isn't even as rare. It's cleaning is also more pronounced if you ask me.

The fact of the matter is, this is a sham submission if you grade conservative or liberal. If one assumes my 1891 and 1849 to be cleaned, it is impossible to see the 69 and 53/4 as original. If one sees the 53/4 and 69 as original, there is no way on the planet my other two get details holders. The grading was plain wrong.

I have generally been spot on with my expectations in the past on the coins I've submitted before. Almost exact agreement. This time, I see all 4 coins differently than PCGS. Two where I gained a several hundred dollars and two where I lost money I felt their sale would deserve.

That 1849 is not remotely "original surfaces." No chance whatsoever that natural toning reaches the devices before filling the fields, and the varied coverage simply does_not_happen in the "natural" world. I don't lnow about the other coins, but PCGS got the 1849 right.

Natural toning has not reached the devices before filling the fields. Besides, if that were the problem it would have been called questionable color 91, not 92. Again, these pics were a personal reference and I didn't originally take them with the intention they'd be seen. On the 49, I chose a specific lighting and cam angle to try and capture the rainbow for myself. The coin in hand is a nice, even dark brown (more in the fields in fact) with rainbow undertones.

When you say you "don't know about the others" are you implying you agree they messed up or are you not sure?

My 49 pics are probably not helping that coin's case, but the fact that some posters think that one or both of the other coins are fine, and saying the 49 is sooooo obvious tells me people just don't want to rock the boat against PCGS.

How much does anyone here want to bet that if I posted another thread "claiming" PCGS just slabbed my 49' VF-35 and my 69 as VG or F details, that people (who haven't seen this thread) would say things like "the 49' has amazing tone, but the 69 has clearly been messed with" or "the 49' is a beautiful coin, but the 69 has been obviously cleaned."

I doubt the mods would appreciate such a thread so I won't do it, but it would be an interesting experiment on the courage and sensibility of our posters against the big bad PCGS.

I do agree with this statement. That is true. It would be pretty strange to see a G/VG with nice colors. Of course, the closer one gets to MS, the more acceptable it becomes. A XF-40 IMO (VF-35 I suppose) can get natural coloring. The colors also don't look as extravagant in hand---I took those pics on purpose that way. The coin looks beautiful, but it's primarily a brown coin.

In my experience seated silver also runs the gamete on natural color more so than more recent classic silver. You don't often rainbow colors except on proofs, I know, but you can take 10 different original pieces and they will be 10 completely different shades of brown, grey, or even nearly black. With Morgans, barbers, Mercs, etc....you will see more diverse and frequent rainbows, but when they just tone dark, there is much less variance.

I wouldn't take it personal, the 49 is what it is. It still has value. No doubt in my mind that had you posted it in the grading section that it would've gotten hammered.

I wonder why no one has asked you why you even bothered sending in altered (cleaned) coins in for grading, knowing beforehand they are altered.
If I were to see those coins in any type of auction I would not buy them, as they don't have a "cleaned" reference on the slabs.

understood.