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 Replies: 41 / Views: 3,204 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
675 Posts |
Roach, I honestly have no opinion on the 1909-S in question. If the coin turns out to be authentic, then you have a nice find there at a good price! My recommendation would be to pay for the coin and get it in hand. Once you have it in hand, take it to a local dealer(s), and have it checked for authenticity. If they feel it is authentic, then great! If they don't feel that it is authentic, then I would contact the seller for a return/refund, etc. Personally I avoid buying key date coins that aren't graded by one of the TPG's, due to the risk of a fake. I honestly hope that this one works out for you. Good luck, and let us know how things go. Thundercoin |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
quote:
If they don't feel that it is authentic, then I would contact the seller for a return/refund, etc.
Part of the problem, and it's a big problem, is that an authoritative opinion can't be had in time to exercise any return option. It then becomes a dispute, and ebay's system doesn't help much. Even though, as he said, roach can probably ram through a Paypal dispute and get his money back, it's a frustrating experience for everyone involved. Worse yet, Paypal is capricious, and might just decide to stick roach with the coin even if it's a fake. I think ebay has really dropped the ball regarding situations like these. Yes, they make you affirm that your coin is genuine when you list it, but there's really no teeth with which to enforce it. |
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Valued Member
United States
499 Posts |
If you haven't paid for it already make sure that you pay for it with one of the major credit cards. Their ability and willingness to help get your money back is much greater than ebay or paypal. Paypal will try to convince you not to use the credit card but will accept if you don't cave. good luck Ziggy |
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Valued Member
 United States
364 Posts |
You hit it right on the head Dave. I am a seller and a buyer. I think the buyer on ebay deserves more protection than the seller. As an honest seller I have no qualms about letting e-bay scrutinize everything I do as a seller. If I ever make a mistake on an auction and misrepresent something I would happily return it without a problem. Good sellers earn their good feedback and subsequently more bidders. They have a vested interest in protecting that. Bad sellers (not that this person is a bad seller, he may have no clue about coins) have no vested interest at all. They can rip someone off and don't really care. But then e-bay and pay-pal aren't exactly on the buyers side when a bad transaction happens. So I guess what I am saying is as a seller I welcome scrutiny and if some-one thought something I was selling was fake I would certainly not make them buy it, and I would find out if it was real or not. If I knowingly list a fake expensive coin (again I'm not saying this is the case here) and someone buys it for big bucks, that is just not right in any way shape of form, and any-one wanting to get out of that transaction has my blessing. Sellers accept the inherent risks, hassles etc when doing business on e-bay. Buyers should not have the same amount of "responsibility" if you will. they are not seeking a profit , they are seeking a product. Just my 2 cents. Now can we all just get along? To lighten the mood everyone look at this grading company for a good laugh!  Image:  27af_1_sbgl.jpg21.25 KB |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
quote:
Buyers should not have the same amount of "responsibility" if you will. they are not seeking a profit , they are seeking a product.
I would have to disagree a little, in the specific case of ebay. Most ebay buyers are looking to get something for nothing; that's why fraud is so easily perpetuated there, and why you're rightfully unhappy in another thread about grading coins for sale. In a perfect world, you're right. In the real world, buyers are seeking a profit because they're interested in seeing you get less than you deserve for your coin. Much of the real trouble on ebay would go away if buyers were better-educated. However, they aren't, they won't be any time in the future, and in the meantime sellers deserve some protection from sheeple who don't know what to expect, and then get disappointed when they don't get it. Every time I sell a batch on ebay, at least one buyer attempts to beat me for a coin by insinuating they didn't get it. Every time, I provide them with the USPS Delivery Confirmation link listing the date and time of delivery, and every single time I never hear from them again. Focusing more closely at this specific case, I'm rather nervous about both the coin and the seller. A little research raises serious concerns based on feedback timing and sales records. He's only been a member since May, has only bought coins, and now all of a sudden is selling kilodollar rarities? Ugh. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Meanwhile back at the topic. Is it real? Tuff question since the photo is so poor. I myself wouldn't take a chance. Just to poor a photo but could be real. But still not in great shape from what I can see. The price range is not bad for that coin but even at that I wouldn't touch it unless I could see it in person.
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Valued Member
United States
54 Posts |
I'd suggest you search the Heritage auction archives for the 1909-s Indian. There you will find high resolution photos of examples certified by the grading services, so you will be able to compare for yourself.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
764 Posts |
the 1909S in the first post is a counterfeit with an added S, probably from an authentic penny from 1928-1941. the style of mint mark on that cent was not used until 20 years later. with only a few exceptions, the exact location and angle of mint marks cannot be used to identify a coin as counterfeit. up until recently, mint marks were punched directly onto each die so coins from different dies are slightly different.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
actually all it would have taken was to look at the sellers feedback as a seller and see that in this auction he had his location as Hong Kong China http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...230128963114 so all they did was change their location to somewhere where people may think it may not be fake. I still feel that you shouldn't have bid unless you have already done the homework and if you do bid without doing it you still are obligated to pay for the item if you won it, and I have to say also that with the responses you have made you have made it to the very short list of blocked bidders on my account also Edited by Bryan1315
08/23/2007 8:37 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
717 Posts |
For comparison: Coin #1 - yours:  Coin #2 - Heritage auction archives:  Edited by yechi7
08/23/2007 11:39 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1283 Posts |
My 2 cents (hey, a coin pun!)
If I bid on a coin, and shortly after learned (for a fact) it was a scam I would refuse to pay. A fake coin IS a scam. That being said, if there is ANY question about its authenticity I would say the buyer should follow through with his obligation. But if there's solid proof that it's fake I'm going to be in the minority and say he shouldn't have to pay. That is a big IF though.
Unless I'm misinterpreting you guys you're basically saying, "if you were dumb enough to fall for it, then you're scum if you refuse to pay".
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Valued Member
United States
306 Posts |
More accurately what they are saying is. "Don't use this forum to. a) justify asking for a discount if a person bid too much b) as a reference to resell something and say, 'They said it was legit' or c) as expert evidence to submit to ebay in order to get out of buying it." |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Personally I avoid buying key date coins that aren't graded by one of the TPG's, due to the risk of a fake. I honestly hope that this one works out for you. Good luck, and let us know how things go. Thundercoin Every one should do that. I avoid ebay or any on line dealers and auctions. I know there are many individuals that only have those as a source of coins and I feel sorry for them. However, if it is not graded by a TPG and slabbed, it is just to risky for an expensive item. This one may or may not be fake and from that poor photo it is just to difficult to tell. As so many say, it is probably the best thing to do under these circumstances is to pay for it, receive it, have it authenticated and if not real, then complain. If real, you have a valuable coin. However, from my experiences at coin shows it is over priced for that condition. One big problem with auctions is people getting caught up in a buying frency over nothing. This could be a lesson well learned as to what not to do though. I hate to say this but if you buy something, you should know what you are doing and so many of us just don't. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
there is another way out, email the seller and voice your concerns and if they say you can back out of the transaction then it is ok to not pay, but that is only if both parties agree on this. If a seller had a key date coin that was in a PCGS slab and there was no question of authenticity and you won it for hundreds less than it should have sold for and the seller refused the payment he would be on your blocked list so fast it would make your head spin. Since there is a return policy with this seller I think the buyer should email him and tell him the coin will be returned no matter what because of a question of authenticity and just maybe the seller will not want to waste their time sending it to you to only get it back but if they don't care and say it was a binding contract then all you would be out was the shipping both ways (which is enough for me not to bid on this coin, 15.00 for a coin pfffft!)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts |
First off, I believe the 1909S to be real. The mintmark is in the right place for a real one and doesn't look bad from the images. Of course a close inspection of the coin would tell me 100% one way or the other.
Second, a bid is a bid, and if you win, you have to pay - no matter what. And coming here asking the questions and getting childish when the answers come in that you don't like is good reason to block you from bidding. I wouldn't want you pulling the same prank on me.
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Posted 08/19/2007 1:30 pm
27af_1_sbgl.jpg
