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 Replies: 21 / Views: 4,690 |
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Valued Member
 Japan
349 Posts |
Ed - I thought the edge might have been filed, but some normal nickels look similar. Pic of the edge: Left: 2008 Middle: This coin ("1897") Right: 1887  Some closeups: Because the way the denticles look, I thought it might be cast. Especially in the upper-left area. You can see a few die scratches/polish lines, and a die gouge near the funny looking right dot.    Edited by bungle
01/05/2015 4:43 pm
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
You can see it easily once you start looking closely - things which ought to be sharp if other things are, aren't, and there are places where the intersection between device and field is clearly suspect.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
604 Posts |
@bungle
Well it's agreed that it's counterfeit.
However, you brought up a good question, why go through all the trouble to make a common date Liberty.
Were they just practicing up for when they make the 1885?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1796 Posts |
Seeing the up-close pictures, this one was certainly struck, not cast. The master die was probably made from a genuine nickel via a transfer process or even CNC scanning.
The date, however, I simply cannot account for. They probably were hand-punching them or adding them on to the initial scan to make the whole series, which is much easier/lazier than scanning a coin of each year/mm. :-)
Very often they'll re-use reverse dies over multiple years for the same reason (which leads to type mismatches, but also a means to easily test if it's from the same manufacturer via die markers; this is how the infamous Micro-O Morgans got caught).
Edited by SteveCaruso
01/05/2015 5:50 pm
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
A transfer process - if so this was a good one - would explain the "just about but not quite everything" look. Thinking about it, I have to wonder if the raw dies made it into the hands of a second, less-skilled party before the "date" was applied.
There might be a fascinating story we'll never know behind this one. Wonder why we haven't seen more.
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Moderator
United States
15544 Posts |
Excellent fake less the obvious date ... the close up photos of the raised tooling marks and dots confirm all opinions of a reasonably well executed counterfeit ...
Well execute of course except for the date!
Please share how you came across this example.
David
Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.jk-dk.artEdited by nickelsearcher
01/05/2015 7:27 pm
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Valued Member
United States
250 Posts |
This is the new large date/drunken engraver variety :)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1750 Posts |
No one has seen the "wacky date" variety of 1897 Liberty head nickels?  JK, of course. Edited by DoubleEagle20
01/05/2015 11:01 pm
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Valued Member
United States
324 Posts |
The numbers are bad because it is made in China. They always have a problem with the numbers since their characters for numbers look so different. They have a real problem with numbers like you would with their characters.
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Valued Member
United States
245 Posts |
That does look pretty impressive... doesn't make sense to me either. One good fake year is worth more than a dozen bad fake years isn't it? Especially when it comes to how bad the date is.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5854 Posts |
Quote:
However, you brought up a good question, why go through all the trouble to make a common date Liberty. Common dates usually get less scrutiny than key dates. Key dates are typically struck from a very limited number of die pairs and have identifying diagnostics that are much more well known. If it is easier for the counterfeiter to sell and in larger quantities, then it can make more sense to fake a common date over a key date. |
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
This piece is an excellent candidate to put in my black collection. The spuriousness of the date is obvious, almost as good as having 'fake' stamped on it.
What makes it an excellent candidate for my black collection is everthing ELSE about it, and it is these characteristics that demand it to be examined very closely to educate oneself in the identification of similar suspect or fake coins.
An excellent study piece.
It is otherwise very dangerously deceptive.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1132 Posts |
The "7" is so fat. Why was 6 afraid of 7?
Because 7 ate 9. (Get it?) :p
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Valued Member
Japan
349 Posts |
^ haha There is an 1887 for sale on aliexpress, with the same comical 7. The T on the reverse looks similar, but the pics are too small to tell for sure. The person I got this one from, says he got it at an online auction a while ago. Liberty nickels are rarely seen for sale in Japan... |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
The Chinese counterfeiters tend to use the computer copying to create a fake hub. They then remove the date from that hub and use it to create multiple undated dies. That hub can be used to create dies until it wears out. They then punch whatever date they desire into one of the blank dies and strike fakes from it. They have done this for years. On the bust dollars they used a coin that had some noticeable features and contact marks. The dateless hub created from that coin, the "vampire hub", has been used to create bust dollar dies of all dates from 1795 to 1804. At one time they had a commonly used hub on Seated dollars that had major damage in the top of the shield on the obv. That hub was also to create dies for almost every date in the Seated dollar series. |
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Posted 01/05/2015 4:36 pm
