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Moderator
 Canada
10458 Posts |
Quote:
anyway, enough politics otherwise the Mods will slab our typing fingers Nope, we just yank out the political stuff... this is a place to discuss Canadian coins, not Canadian politics...  "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5394 Posts |
This is a really good thread and we must not turn it into a political discussion ! Those characters are all counterfeits in most people's opinion no matter the party. Back to the topic at hand though. I think 47p7 and others are on the right track. We do need a strong hobby protection act as it pertains to our coin hobby and also it should include an all encompassing counterfeit goods provision as well. For once I actually agree with 47p7 and his good comment on the Customs form adding a question about counterfeit or knock off goods. Not hard to do really . I won't knock the job the CBSA and the job they do , for many reasons, but this is a serious deal and is doing potential harm to Canadians. indeed in my opinion it is a form of economic terrorism and has to be stopped. Their mandate is to protect the borders and we need to give them the teeth to do it.As
some of you may know that I am currently in the UK attending some shows and auctions. At the Midland coin fair this past Sunday a so called numismatist had over 300 different coins from all over the world, some in silver , all were Chinese counterfeits . I questioned him on selling them at a sanctioned event and he threatened to have me tossed! WOW talk about
calling the kettle black. There is apparently no law enforced here on counterfeit numismatic coins. Heck even a good 5 per cent of the circulating round pounds that are in circulation are spurious!
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3690 Posts |
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There is apparently no law enforced here on counterfeit numismatic coins CBSA just got the authority and mandate to deal with counterfeits as on Jan 1/2015. I suspect they will their focus will not be on coins in the beginning but they might get there eventually. They'll go for the low hanging fruit first especially when that fruit is taxable. I don't think they will be as diligent with PM that is not generally subject to tax (aka government revenue). https://goccf.com/t/197704#197704BTW, that is an excellent W5/TSN series in that video. But I laughed out loud at the end when they say if you buy the products from China you are supporting your team but also supporting organized crime. The NHL charging $250 for a replica jersey is organized crime IMHO. As is charging 200 bucks or more to see the Leafs...or Sens...or Oilers...or Sabres etc. etc.  Added: How about this one? The RCMP will help you get your money back on a purchase of a fake jersey. You get your money back and keep the product. Good deal. http://www.tsn.ca/rcmp-helping-refu...ims-1.203477Sorry but anyone ordering a jersey on-line that is coming from China knows fully that it's fake. Seems like the RCMP is facilitating fraud. Of course the victim is a Chinese counterfeiter so I guess that makes it ok. Edited by CC-Ottawa
02/09/2015 4:11 pm
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Valued Member
Canada
329 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5588 Posts |
Pacificcoin: I thought that you were going to be at the Legacy auction in Toronto. It looks like I may be up there for one day. I had hoped to make contact with you. It looks like Thursday maybe for me and I'll be wearing a red or orange flannel shirt(winter garb).
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3049 Posts |
If you're wearing orange or red flannel you'll stick out like a sore thumb at a roofer's convention... (kinda trying to say you'll probably just fit right in as you're north of the 49! Grab a timmies cup and just about any average joe will start talking hockey with ya to eh!) ______ Now on my opinions on TPG's I think what PCGS does buy buying a coin they have slabbed which is counterfiet is the correct and ethical thing to do. I like what 47p7 states about writing to our MP's and trying to give CBSA the teeth they really need. To get this done right it would take a bit of organization and some resources but the points 47p7 makes are very reasonable... but government would have to see the "value" in it. Most times our border agency is looking to protect our resources and industry. But I'm not exactly sure if they really would want to care about a "hobby" It would be great if "general letter" could be given out at coin shows and in coin shops... perhaps even one made in an ad in a coin publication for people to fill out and mail to their respective MP's... Educate the community what the issue is.. and at the same time our respective politicians that there is an issue with their constiuants and perhaps the wheels of change may start to turn. People say I'm a donkey... I agree.. I'm best when told what to do and I put my head down and get the work done... I can't say I'm a GREAT idea's person... or that I know how to talk to people that well.. but I think what better place than this forum to do something useful and make something happen that would be to the benefit of our hobby. I would be willing to be part of that!... Anyone else... ? |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5394 Posts |
Okie I will be there for sure, get there from London on Wednesday afternoon coming straight to auction..The way things are going I will be the guy sleeping with his bidding number high in the air snoring  . Look forward to it. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1505 Posts |
Thanks AGcount me in... wrote 2 years ago.... no response from my MP....this time his job might be on the line.. so most likely get a mean nothing sympathetic response. It is commonly known that nobody likes fakes.. BUT how many of you have EVER DONE ENYTHING ABOUT IT....?  the time is NOW... an election is looming... Sorry Mods, if that is political..  . well, I am sorry.
Edited by 47P7
02/09/2015 9:49 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3049 Posts |
I honestly can say I haven't done much. I did in correspondence with both nicklesguy and swamperbob say that if they ever needed anything or help I would be glad to do what I can... but that's it until now....
I will write you an email 47p7 and hopefully together we can do something that can be put into action.
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Valued Member
 Canada
495 Posts |
Can someone with more experience in these matters prepare a general type of letter we can use to start a campaign of awareness to our MPS and other sources of influence? 47P7 is right, time to stop chatting and do something about it. I for one will not buy any coins from China at least it is a first step, I like my hobby and want to enjoy it without being preyed upon by thieves, the alternative is to fold up and walk away from it if this black cloud isn't dealt with.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
Could a TPG end up in court? Yes, provided a case of deliberate misrepresentation or gross negligence can be supported. The probable lawers fees would have to justify such an action, otherwise you would most probably loose anyway, even if you were right or wrong. |
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Moderator
Australia
16826 Posts |
The most likely scenario for a TPG ending up in court with regard to an allegedly slabbed counterfeit, is where the owner of a slabbed coin insists it is indeed a counterfeit and has the expert opinion to back it up, whereas the TPG is likewise insistent that the coin is in fact genuine, and has an equally impressive bank of experts to say so. Swamperbob vs. Collectors Universe. Now there's an episode of Judge Judy I'd watch. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1505 Posts |
SAP, if it would boil down to such a case, I guess it would be relatively easy to proof one way or another, hopefully before tempers explode.
both parties hand the coin to a trusted 3rd party, like a Notary public or independent entity.
the mandate would be to open the slab and videotape the whole issue by a independent party and witnessed by a notary.
then a metal test, I. e. components and what ever is needed will be done. not once, but 3 times on 3 different machines.
that process would be whole lot cheaper than court costs.
AG
got your note and will get back to you later, most likely not today.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3049 Posts |
47P7: I didn't send you an e-mail yet...
Will do that right now.. though..
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1796 Posts |
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Swamperbob vs. Collectors Universe. Now there's an episode of Judge Judy I'd watch. This would be me:  |
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Posted 02/09/2015 2:59 pm
