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Pillar of the Community
United States
5318 Posts |
quote: "An 1872 silver 3 cent piece with a mintage of 1,000 is worth $1,400 in MS63."
Personally, I don't think you can go wrong with a low mintage if the price is currently favorable. If collecting habits change, the demand might change for that mintage, and what was a nice coin already could become valuable. Consider the 1856 PF-65 Flying Eagle cent which sold for $185 in 1950. Contrast that to the hordes of junk that is currently peddled as "collectable". I tend to target these low-mintage coins because of trends I've seen over time.
Edited by KurtS 11/27/2007 5:41 pm
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Valued Member
 United States
382 Posts |
King,Asian, Carl, I see all your points, they make sense. Mintage and Rarity are key with the Moderns I would think, if it is Modern and Rare,it would be Rare in the future. As far as the Modern Quarters, Halfs, Dollars go, ..Present day coins I am talking about here.. I have to agree with Conder. The buy price from dealers on this stuff must be very low as they are paying face for the coins in some cases. I don't know, the whole think just reminds me of Hawks circling above they prey.
Tony
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2272 Posts |
"Actually modern coins ARE a fairly good market. It all depends on where you go, who you ask, the type your talking about, grades of coins. For example the market for IKE's is oddly very big for high grades. Check out https://www.jmscoins.com for an example. That guy specializes in high grade IKE's and some are well into the thousands. At coin shows many moderns go for extreamely high prices but again usually for the very high grades and slabbed. At these same coin shows I see people grabbing modern Washington quarter rolls as if they were Gold. One dealer goes to banks, buys rolls of Uncirc anything, puts each coin in a 2x2 and sells for massive profit and they do sell. One of the busiest tables there. Like I said it all depends on where you go, grades, etc." You're certainly right that some of the moderns in high grade trade at very high prices. I'm quite aware of the existence of these markets. But these prices are high because the coins are extremely elusive not because there is much demand. There are Morgans with graded populations approaching 10,000 but some of the Ikes are less than 100. This doesn't mean that the Ikes are scarcer (they are) but it does show the relative interest in the coins. Ikes have to be in a grade where only a few hundred exist to even be worth the cost of grading! Morgans can be quite common and still warrant this expense. The modern markets have achieved a lot of maturity in the last few years and there are increasing numbers of dealers trying to keep some in stock. Perhaps there will be so few Ikes and other moderns that more will just have to be graded. In a few cases this means some pretty low grade moderns will be appearing in slabs because there aren'y any more high grade ones. Try finding a nice choice '76-P tI Ike. All the high grades are slabbed and there aren't many that are truly choice.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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Valued Member
United States
314 Posts |
I would not buy those overpriced Ikes or Kenndey half dollar coins or whatever. Its an rip off on those big time I think. Reasons I think those are. 1. I needed an 1977 ike for book. Dealer wanted 40 bucks for ike that was Ms 63 or 65 in an 2x2 thing. It looked like an coin cut from mint set. For less than 10 bucks I can buy intire 1977 mint set with all other coins in there to complete set. Intire set with all bu and proof with 32 coins totol cost 200 to 300 retail, wholesale set is 135 bucks with 32 coins. 2. Halfs 1971 up. I had over 1000 dollars face. I called an dealer and said he dont want them and told me to sell to bank. Same on SBA dollar coins. I had lots mint state coins in those boxes. Most dealers buy them around face on ikes, halfs, SBA dollars. Some dont even say on on buy prices on them. The onley coins I see I think are worth the money are 1982 and 1983 bu rolls of coins aslong with those Mint souvenir sets from denver and philadephia sets. Reason they never made mint sets those year aslong 1971 and 1972 ikes, 1979 s SBA dollar, not sold in mint sets those years. The onley way and cheap way to build intire set of coins to fill all books with brand new coins. Buy each mint set from 1965 thru 2007 and the dancso books for each coin like penny thru dollar. Add the intire 1965 thru 2007 proof set. Take each set part and install them in books. The other stuff like 46 thru 64 dime set. Buy an built set already to finish that set. In the end you will get one set each of coins ever made on those modern coins that way. I learned it not worth trying to build or buy one set at time like pennys, dimes, nickels, halfs, ikes, SBA, sacs. Like I said you will spend more money buying each coin or set aslong the way. So if was you I would be buying proof sets and mint sets , 1982 and 1983 bu rolls of coins. 65, 66, 67 coins not installed in those sms mint sets. Its the truth those dealers riping peaple off big time on those modern coins. Thats where they buy those coins or build sets. They buy intire run of mint sets or proof sets to build all those sets. They even pay to have all some sent to slabing companys to get those high grade coins from mint sets , proof sets you see them sell all those overpriced prices. One last thing its the dealers writing the price guides out there. Chevrolet454ss
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2272 Posts |
Chevrolet454ss; I strongly agree with the gist of your post but I don't agree with all your points.
Certainly some collectors will have a lot more fun and incur a lot less expense buying these coins in the mint sets. If they are picky and look for nice quality sets and coins it is possible to assemble extremely high quality sets. You'd have to put a great deal of effort into a set to have many valuable coins in it but in the final analysis collecting is about having fun, not getting rich. This collection would very likely be worth at leas a little more than you paid for it since mint sets are worth more after they are cut up.
If this kind of collecting appeals to you and you like these coins then I'd recommend it for anyone.
But I disagree that buying slabbed moderns is necesarily a waste. Yes, the dealer's 1977 Ike probably wasn't worth anything close to $40 and he was just testing the market. If it were a real gem he'd have known it and had it slabbed. Few dealers are very well acquinted with these coins. It's easy for the dealer to go through his stock and put high prices on the nicer coins but finding the very high grade coins is a lot more difficult usually then just looking through ten or a hundred mint sets. Each coin in these sets has different characteristics and the scarce coins don't just come out and tell you they're rare, you have to learn.
It is very small but there is an active market in the high grade moderns and ultramoderns. I would never suggest that anyone should just plunk down money to invest in these coins but they make a great collectible for those who like such coins and aren't put off by clad or late dates.
I really like the '82 and '83 coins but some may be a little overrrated. No, I don't mean the price is necessarily too high but those who don't collect moderns usually don't understand how it's possible that these coins actually had higher savings rates than other coins of that era. They don't understand that when it comes to finding nice attractive coins that there are others that are more difficult and much cheaper. They also don't realize that there are lots of varieties that weren't issued in mint sets and they weren't saved at all.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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Valued Member
United States
342 Posts |
People collect all kinds of "worthless" items simply because it makes them happy. In the long run any coin old or new is worth what someone is willing to pay to get it. The good thing about collecting modern coins is that you can always spend them if you want or need to.
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New Member
United States
33 Posts |
Whenever I hear talk about moderns it nearly always comes down to the shear number of coins that were made. This alone I think has kept a fair number of collectors at bay for quite a while. The only thing that matches the shear volume of coins minted in recent decades was the shear lack of interest. I count myself among those who for many years snickered at the idea of picking up the moderns to finish out sets. As an example, I considered the Washington series to be complete when I had all regular issues from 1932 to 1964. More often than not there was just always something older to be bought and my thoughts were that there were so many of these newer coins that I could get them anytime I wanted. Now I find myself really wondering what that serious lack of interest amongst a great number of collectors has done to the numbers of these coins. Every time I look through the change jar I see coins from the 70's and 80's all worn down and beat to heck and wishing I would have put some away when they were new. Fortunately the mint sets, while somewhat lacking in real quality, are still easily (and cheaply) found and a fill the hole collector like myself still can finish out a half way decent set. I see the prices on the higher end moderns continuing to rise, and perhaps even some of the common and cheap mint sets as they have been, and still are being dismantled at a good pace.
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Valued Member
United States
164 Posts |
cladking: Hi. I recently bought the 1982 and 1983 dimes and quarters. I paid $47.00 for the 1983P quarter. I was very hesitant, but did not want to see a price of 100 dollars this time next year. I was interested in your figure of 100,000 83P quarters (in unc condition ). How close to the mark do you think this number is?
I am currently, among other projects putting together a set of MS 63 clad quarters. When viewed together, they are quite attractive--who woulda thunk?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
People collect all kinds of "worthless" items simply because it makes them happy. In the long run any coin old or new is worth what someone is willing to pay to get it. The good thing about collecting modern coins is that you can always spend them if you want or need to. This is really true. The greatest amount of collectors of anything is kids. Probably a vast majority of coin collectors are kids. All kids collect stuff and some just collect things they find on the ground but they collect. This is just one of the reasons small denomination coins are the most expensive. Also, why moderns are so high priced. Halves, Ikes, $2 bills, anything Silver is just not out there for the majority of those collectors so their prices are nothing spectacular. As to Kennedies, note most were used in slot machines and have excessive wear, scatches, dents, etc. Again, a high grade one is just not commonly found. I get from 2 to 10 rolls of them about every other week from a bank and almost all look like they were used in every possible machine on Earth. As to moderns, you just can't beat the Lincoln Cent for value. Every kid that collects coins collects them. Soon the 2009's will be out and the values of the entire collection is expected to sky rocket. This is already becoming apparent at coin shows. Another tell tail sign of popularity is the amount of fakes, counterfeits. They are most common with coins that are the most wanted such as the 16D Merc, 09S VDB Lincoln, 14D Lincoln, etc. Just not a lot of fake Kennedy half dollars or Ikes.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4870 Posts |
I think the Kennedy series has a lot of potential as the mintages are quite low.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2272 Posts |
Figure about 45,000 were issued in souvenir sets and privately packaged sets. No more than about 30,000 of the P quarter survive in as issued condition and the rest are "worn out" in circulation. There are none of the type "d" reverse coins in the souvenir sets or the Numisnews sets. Of the other sets only about 2% are the type "d".
This provides an excellent means for estimating the number of rolls available since it's known that only a little more than 20% of production was type "d". Since these are seen only a little more than 5% of the time a total number surviving can be estimated in the 80 to 100,000 range.
With most of the clad quarters there are virtually no examples in AU, XF or (often) VF, but with the '83-P the scarcity of this was known very early (May, 1985) so significant numbers do exist in AU, and XF. VF's are still common in circulation. Nice well made and attractive examples of this coin are pretty tough in any grade. MS-63's will usually require some searching since even the souvenir set coins are usually poorly struck from worn dies.
Choice clad quarter sets are a pretty inexpensive and fun set to put together. Many of these coins are far more elusive than their price would seem to indicate. The fun is in the hunt.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2272 Posts |
"Whenever I hear talk about moderns it nearly always comes down to the shear number of coins that were made. This alone I think has kept a fair number of collectors at bay for quite a while. The only thing that matches the shear volume of coins minted in recent decades was the shear lack of interest. I count myself among those who for many years snickered at the idea of picking up the moderns to finish out sets. As an example, I considered the Washington series to be complete when I had all regular issues from 1932 to 1964. More often than not there was just always something older to be bought and my thoughts were that there were so many of these newer coins that I could get them anytime I wanted. Now I find myself really wondering what that serious lack of interest amongst a great number of collectors has done to the numbers of these coins. Every time I look through the change jar I see coins from the 70's and 80's all worn down and beat to heck and wishing I would have put some away when they were new. Fortunately the mint sets, while somewhat lacking in real quality, are still easily (and cheaply) found and a fill the hole collector like myself still can finish out a half way decent set. I see the prices on the higher end moderns continuing to rise, and perhaps even some of the common and cheap mint sets as they have been, and still are being dismantled at a good pace.
CannonMan17; If it's any consolation none of the regular issues will be scarce or rare in unc. If the demand ever develops it will be seen that the surviving numbers are not substantial. One area that could see explosive growth is in the varieties. Since coins weren't set aside or collected these escaped detection unrtil recent years and finding unc examples will prove impossible for some and difficult for most. Even VF will be highly elusive for some of the tougher varieties. There are some major scarcities as well with only one or two known in any condition.
The mint sets will be a savior if pmany people want these coins but as you know they don't contain all of them and very few of the varieties. Quality can be very spotty. '68-P quarters are usually dark in the set even though they're otherwise quite gemmy. A lot of the late '80's and early '90's quarters are very elusive without extensive marking.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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Valued Member
United States
164 Posts |
Okay, let's display my ignorance. What is a type "d" reverse on the clad Washington quarters. If the answer is too complicated could someone refer me to a website? Thanks to anyone.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2272 Posts |
The reverse dies were reworked in '77 and from this date until 1984 some of these reworked dies were used to strike coins. Each year the differences grew until there's a dramatic difference on the 1984.
Look at the right side of the N in UNUM. It is much farther from the eagle's head on the scarcer variety. There are numerous other differences as well such as much lower relief.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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Valued Member
United States
164 Posts |
Thanks cladking. Much appreciated. I will go check my clads.
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Replies: 27 / Views: 2,472 |
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