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 Replies: 20 / Views: 8,219 |
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Pillar of the Community
Taiwan
606 Posts |
Thank you for posting Canadian-Varieties. Those pesky hairlines and PCGS do not get along. It
has also been my experience that purple toning or shades thereof will get the attention of PCGS.
Congratulations on your upgrades especially the 1906 25c Small Crown.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5825 Posts |
My observations strongly indicate that comparing the Canadian graders to the US graders shouldn't be done.
They appear to have different grading standards.
The same coin will get ½ to 1 grade LOWER from the Canadians when compared to the US graders.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
867 Posts |
Conclusion: Better for buyers to buy an ICCS coin, and better for sellers to sell PCGS graded coins...I sense an arbitrage opportunity!
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1442 Posts |
I've come to really believe the "buy the coin, not the holder" mantra, although in the case of PCGS registry sets, buyers are definitely buying the holder.
These days.... ICCS EF40 is not what it used to be, and I can tell you from experience that there are a TON of cleaned and artifically re-toned coins hiding in ICCS holders.
I very much hesitate to touch anything ICCS at AU+, and investing in ICCS at MS64 or MS65 is virtually suicidal. I think the large cent and small cent collectors have experienced this very acutely, but to a lesser extent this applies to silver as well.
A high end, investment grade Canadian coin HAS to be in a PCGS holder, as collectors like myself will shy away from ICCS based on bad experiences, or will only buy ICCS if it's heavily discounted.
A big part of the problem is some of the major Canadian dealers, whose stock is filled with these damaged, cleaned, scratched, environmentally damaged coins in ICCS flips that they turn a blind eye to and sell as if nothing is wrong with them.
Edited by canadian-varieties
07/09/2015 12:37 pm
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Moderator
 Canada
10460 Posts |
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Valued Member
Canada
299 Posts |
Well, if ICCS is trash (and I have more than 2)...hopefully PCGS will open a Canadian branch! I should be able to recover the 15 - 20K cost for hard slabbing due to the expected grade increases.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Thanks very much for posting your considerable effort. Most informative.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1949 Posts |
Excellent post CV, I've noticed PCGS has started acknowledging many many more Canadian varieties, which I think in the long road, is a phenomenal move for PCGS...
As one commentary, I have noticed that on Canadian silver, nearly all ICCS MS60's would be considered UNC details by PCGS
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1442 Posts |
Edited by canadian-varieties
07/10/2015 3:36 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Taiwan
606 Posts |
It appears from numerous posts that ICCS is not as conservative as it once was.I believe that
PCGS has drifted the other direction. All the coins that I have submitted to PCGS were from the early ICCS flips. It was not unusual for the vast majority of the coins to upgrade.
A few months ago after a lapse of a couple of years I submitted eight coins to PCGS. All the coins
crossed at grade except for a 1929 5c piece that was bumped to a 65. All the coins were removed
from their ICCS flips prior to submission. The coins can be viewed at the PCGS website. Certificate # 30741405-30741412.
But remember,just because the coin is in a newer PCGS slab does not mean that it is a currently
graded coin.It could be a reholdered coin from years ago.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1461 Posts |
I think this exercise accurately represents today's market. I for one always argue that the disparity between ICCS and the US TPGs isn't as drastic as many make it out to be. Most of the examples above reflect it (copper excepted, but many are of opinion that PCGS grades copper way better than ICCS anyways). I think PCGS is stricter on problem coins (especially in lower grades where NGC tends to be more forgiving). I've said this before, undoubtedly the US TPGs (and especially PCGS) are starting to set the standard for grading Canadian coins. This is for many reasons too long to delve into here. BUT (setting my NGC ties aside), the customer service, price and the turn around times at PCGS are unbearable. We are now at $30 CDN per coin plus shipping, handling and insurance with a min 30 day turn around time (economy). Any time I've ever dealt with PCGS, it has been an experience I rather forget. Maybe it's because I have a dealer door into NGC, but I've never had those types of issues with them, even as a customer long ago. I respect and ship many coins to ICCS as they still hold the eyes and ears of many Canadian collectors. The turn around times are good and the price is right for common, lower priced coinage. I could do without the net grade concept for problem coins, but that's a different topic.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5402 Posts |
The whole grading issue , since the advent of third party grading is nothing more than game that has made the TPG s enormous amounts of money. The game is also a great place for dealers and knowledgeable collectors to make lots of cash as well. Let's face it , grading is hardly a science and there are overgraded and under graded coins out there from all services. Slamming one over the over or saying this one is better or worse , solves little. Buy the coin and not the holder and it all works out in the end. I will add that when the grading bar slides one way or the other you better be ready to slide with it. Gradeflation is reality in a hot coin market and the opposite is quite true in a down market. Over the years I have supported ICCS , NGC, and Anacs . For the most part it has been a wonderful experience. That has made me a lot of money in the coin business. Don't. Always agree with the results when the coins come back, but the batting average is such that there have been many doubles, triples and home runs in the last 30 years of sending coins to TPG s. Edited by Pacificoin
07/14/2015 01:41 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts |
Quote:
Gradeflation is reality.... I'll just leave it at that...and it's generated a ton of fast and easy money for the the TPG's... Anyone here ever think that PCGS will set up a satellite office in Canada.... to help reduce the problems and paperwork etc..of moving coins between the borders..? . . Edited by DEVLEC
07/15/2015 11:11 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5402 Posts |
Not a chance in hades! There really aren't any problems sending coins for authentication or expertise. Under the customs act of both Canada and the U.S. They pass freely under a special section. The biggest problem is Canada Post extortion tracking to the U.S.
The only time you have a problem with customs on getting your coins returned to you after expertising is that Canada Customs can charge ( seldom happens) GST/HST on the grading fees if they so wish.
Have sent many hundreds over the years and only one package from ANACS cost me anything.
Canadian coins are a minuscule blip on the radar of PCGS and setting up an office in Canada would be a sure fire money loser for them.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1461 Posts |
To add to this thread...
I just received a couple of coins back from PCGS on cross from ICCS. All 3 ICCS coin were X series 6 digits.
1917 1C, ICCS MS64 RB PCGS MS64RB
1918 1C, ICCS MS65 RD PCGS MS65RD
1900H 1C ICCS MS65 RD PCGS DNC (Did not cross on color)
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Replies: 20 / Views: 8,219 |
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Posted 07/09/2015 07:51 am
