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 Replies: 22 / Views: 3,419 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
632 Posts |
Come on people. The word "counterfeit" is a nasty word in coin collecting and we all know that. Whether this coin is real or not posting "counterfeit" and then offering no evidence or explanation doesn't help anyone.
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
1849 Posts |
It does look a bit rough, but this could be due to wear, ground damage etc. I would not condemn it as counterfeit just yet. On the other hand, it shows some key elements of 1818 Variety B-9, which is a very rare die paring. See specially the tiny spike protruding from star 2 into the field. Compare with this coin from HA archives. That would be very hard to duplicate in a counterfeit. However, some die breaks are missing vs the HA specimen, although that could be due to a different die state. http://coins.ha.com/itm/bust-quarte...nail-071515#More detailed comparison is warranted. Edited by GERMANICVS
08/24/2015 04:03 am
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
1849 Posts |
1818 B-11 is also a possibility. This variety also has the spike extending from star 2. The reverse seems to match as well.
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
I'll second Elimist's opinion on giving evidence if you think a coin is counterfeit. If you think so, tell us why. Otherwise... Coin appears to have the minute pitting in irregular patches typical of a dug coin. The tone, which might be different in-hand than these photos show, appears to have formed after circulation, which would be correct for a dug coin, too. The majority of coins from this early period have been cleaned. The TPG's seem to have a hard time deciding if that is worth listing, or not, on early issues. The only evidence of cleaning is the simple fact that detritus remains in the small device areas (and in the small pits, too). Still a solid low VF (20 I'd say) that doesn't have enough problems to make me kick it out of bed. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4416 Posts |
Quote:
Come on people. The word "counterfeit" is a nasty word in coin collecting and we all know that. Whether this coin is real or not posting "counterfeit" and then offering no evidence or explanation doesn't help anyone. As one of the "culprits" who suspects this may be a counterfeit, I thought I should reply. My suspicion is simply based upon the look of this piece, based upon my having seen hundreds of the Chinese products in my travels. The overall color and somewhat grainy surface are what first arouse my suspicion. Note that I wasn't labeling the piece as such but rather offering a cautionary observation. That's why I asked about the weight. Oftentimes, the counterfeits having "the look" as I call it, are 10-20% underweight. The stars are suspiciously flat in comparison to the sharpness of the letters in the legend. The apparently cloven foot of the last A in America gives me pause, as I've seen this anomaly on many of the Chinese products. I'm admittedly unfamiliar with the die varieties and states of this series and would rater see more knowledgeable collectors comment on this aspect. However, this arouses my suspicion. Again, I'm not condemning the piece. Perhaps, it's better to withhold any thoughts whatsoever so as to avoid offending the PC police? The term "counterfeit" is a stark reality and not a word to be whispered. In today's coin marketplace, now more than ever, collectors need to seriously call into question what they're buying. Some of us can render more astute opinions than others on coins. We all have our deficits in this regard. Even the experts get fooled, now and then! P.S. - Collectors of "Counterfeit Bust Halves" and other, nineteenth century contemporary counterfeits don't regard the word "counterfeit" as nasty. Edited by ExoGuy
08/24/2015 10:05 am
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
The fact that you asked about the weight, Exoguy, is most certainly a point in your favor since no one else asked that question. As you said, the weight alone will often indicate that a coin is real, or not, although super good fakes get the weight right, too. Everyone gets fooled. I certainly have. But those are good learning experiences. I think part of the frustration that Elimist stated, and I echoed, is that there is legitimate concern for fakes and counterfeits in almost any series and any date. But if you watch these forums you will see people who seem to be able to tell that every coin shown is a fake. I call them the "football flip fake detectors". If you stand at one goal line and flip a coin into the air, they can stand at the other goal line and tell you in the second that the coin spins in the air that is it fake. There are also those who must spend many hours a day doing nothing but looking on ebay for fake coins. That is certainly admirable if something is done about those fakes that are detected. Simply reporting them to ebay is a good idea as they DO pull reported coins. It seems there is a DISPROPORTIONATE amount of time spent calling one coin or another a fake without any offerings as to why or how those opinions were formed. I'm here to learn, as I believe the vast majority of us are. Simply saying a coin is counterfeit without giving an explanation of how and why that opinion was formed offers no knowledge whatsoever, and may indicate a FFFD. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
I believe it is counterfeit. The spike of the star (circled) is a dignostic of all counterfeit large-size capped bust quatrers sold on the no-no site. @GERMANICVS The variety matches because the counterfeit dies were make from an 1818 B-11 quarter.   |
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
Thank you, TypeCoin, for that exact explanation. I think I may have to spend some time visiting that no-no site just to have a better idea of the "things" that are out there.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4416 Posts |
Thanks, TypeCoin971973 for confirming my suspicion. Sometimes, I hate guessing right ....
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
I think it's counterfeit because it has been made from metal die casting. The granular surfaces and lack of detail are quite obvious.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
And when I say that spike is on all of them, I mean ALL of them. Here is an 1825 quarter:  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Here's a genuine 1818 Bust Quarter to compare to the OP coin.   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7375 Posts |
You guys are good, thanks for the explanation.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
589 Posts |
Quote:
1818 B-11 is also a possibility. This variety also has the spike extending from star 2. The reverse seems to match as well. Have any pictures or more information? My book(Early Quarter Dollars of the United States Mint By Rory, DR. Glenn Peterson} only shows up to B-10. What little information I got from NGC is that it is a Die II of the B-3. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
589 Posts |
Quote: 1818 B-11 is also a possibility. This variety also has the spike extending from star 2. The reverse seems to match as well. Have any pictures or more information? My book(Early Quarter Dollars of the United States Mint By Rory, DR. Glenn Peterson} only shows up to B-10. What little information I got from NGC is that it is a Die II of the B-3. Quote:FYI: B-11 Reground B-1 obverse, seventh star to center of dentil. Scroll begins between ED. Included in E-3894; previously unpublished. Unique? Present whereabouts unknown. No illustration available. Shown to me at the 1978 ANA Convention. "Obverse B-3, reverse B-6." The Early Quarter Dollars of the United States By A.W. Browing |
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Replies: 22 / Views: 3,419 |
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Posted 08/24/2015 03:21 am
