Do You Value CAC Coins Higher?

You asked for opinions. I will be brutally honest in the context of history of coin collecting from my personal experience in which I saw the birth of the grading systems.

But before I do - if anyone takes offense - that is NOT what was meant. I do NOT degrade or look down on anyone's idea of what makes a FUN hobby. If you get upset while reading, please make it to the end.

Many people here are likely younger than I am and have been brought up in an "after the slabbing revolution event" mindset in the hobby. It makes it easier for me to understand how younger collectors can like slabs and CACs.

Grab a glass of Pepsi, sit back, relax...

When slabbing made its debut, the general idea of dealers/collectors I knew was that con artistes extraordinaires were elevating themselves to the lauded position of THE Coin Grading Experts. They were not just arrogant. They were the next generation of snake oil salesman looking for suckers.

We wondered why anyone with common sense would pay someone to tell them the grade of their own coin when all that was needed was a Red Book which included detailed descriptions of how to accurately grade coins? Quite honestly, we were of the time-proven-wrong opinion there were not enough suckers to fall for the sham and grading companies would be short lived.

We even joked someone could one-up the slabbers' profits by offering to grade THE Coin Grading Expert's work!

But we knew no Slick Willie, no matter how good, would ever be able to push something so insanely ludicrous on the public. No one could possibly fall/pay for something so obviously sucker-focused.

The times were also such that the US had a higher standard of living than most (if not all) countries - we had more disposable cash per person. History shows a harder life normally results in common-sense becoming a lot more common. Slabbing did not take off in other countries... surprise, surprise.

Still reading? I am sorry if by now some tempers have flared - I remind you honesty is what is behind this posting. This is how most of the dealers and collectors around my area saw all of this. And please continue.... The ending is maybe nicer than you may imagine.

Time passed and new generations grew up with an innocent-peer-pressure-fostered mindset that slabbing was just another natural part of the coin hobby. The sham slabbing seemed to be based upon further sank away into the mists of history (insert evil laugh by the older artistes).

Say something often enough, and people will believe it. Slabs became viewed as the artistes' marketing departments designed them to be ... a sight-unseen way to guarantee a coin being sold was graded properly. And time proved them correct... right?



CCF threads daily testify to the wise saying of, "buy the coin, not the slab." THE Coin Grading Experts' systems fail in substance... but not in profit (insert another evil laugh by the older artistes). After all ... what is this thread asking us all aboout?

So naturally, THE Coin Grading Experts not living up to their guarantees means now people made the incredible (re-)discovery that they CAN indeed, grade coins accurately by themselves and don't need to shell out money to THE Coin Grading Experts to get accurate grading... right?

Uh huh.

No, instead...
Enter another brilliant con-artiste extraordinaire with yet another brilliant money making scheme! We will pronounce ourselves THE MORE GOODER Coin Grading Experts and get people to pay us to grade the work of THE Coin Grading Experts!

Time, being the wonderful blurring machine of thought that it is, made sure people were ready to shell out more cash on a coin to have THE MORE GOODER Coin Grading Experts verify THE Coin Grading Experts had done their job.

So where does it all end?

Dare I predict a new system will be introduced to guarantee the CAC's eventually?

I definitely was proven wrong in the 70s when I thought slabbing would be a short lived money making scheme akin to its cousin of selling snake oil. And the insanely impossible idea of people being conned into thinking they need a secondary level or professionals to grade the first professionals also came to pass.

So here are my future predictions:
The tech for impartial coin grading by machine scanning and analyzing already existed with the machine I used to use in the 90s at a quality control department in a plastics plant located in Girard, PA. We laid a sample piece onto the scanner bed, the machine scanned down to the .001 of an inch, by "looking" at every molded detail (including incuse and raised, abnormally shaped regions)and reporting for each any deviation which would render the molded piece improper and raised a red flag we need to get a mold repair man in there soon.

In fact, to "program" it for different parts being made, we placed a part on the bed, it scanned and found any design details by itself and measured them. We typed in the ideal measurement for each measurement it made. After the couple minute scanning session, we told it to save the set of data. From them on it could scan any identical piece and report to us the quality of the piece. And just how far has computer tech come from 20 years ago?

PCGS spent a lot of money in the late 90s trying to develop a coin grading system and then nothing came of it.

My unsupported by any factual data is that the coin grading companies will, in the future, start advertising a new computer graded system to make money even more money from the masses. Since they will be able to claim high definition scanning instead of the "OLD" 10 power loupe and human-error prone grading system (as proven by CAC!).

After all, how will anyone be able to sleep without knowing if their coin is truly MS65? Won't it be worth another 30.00 per coin to have complete assurance?

And after that the schemes will be able to cash in once more by claiming they have made better grading algorithms for the computer grading systems and again... they will make money.

Make it, and they will come. But don't put a limit on just how far they will come from! Like me, you will likely be proven wrong. Albert Einstein said something about the universe and human intelligence.

To end this book I have posted, I will say that I have actually paid to have some coins slabbed!

I wanted a way that if something happens to me, my family will know certain pieces are more "special" than the others.

And I certainly do understand people wanting to make the maximum profit possible (nothing wrong with that). So nowadays it makes sense when someone will not only slab a coin, but have it stickered as well... when money is the issue. Using common sense to legitimately take advantage of the established slabbing/sticker systems - no matter the origins of the systems - is just good business.

And one more thing to cushion the brutal honesty given here from a person who well knows he is flawed in many ways and better than absolutely no one else...

Slabbing has been around long enough that I can definitely see where someone could have FUN collecting slabbed coins. I can see where they could have fun just by collecting different sets of labels on slabs.

Good for them! Slabs do look nice when displayed side by side! And b/c a hobby is about FUN - I would never call anyone seeking these as being foolish. Any hobby is for fun, and if someone decides they will let peer pressure and others dictate what the word "fun" means, then their hobby has lost what it should be... FUN.

The market values CAC coins higher than non-CAC coins. What we think doesn't matter.

@BH1964



I will use sarcasm - but no ill feelings whatsoever - to make the point in a stronger way...

Correct! My opinion does not matter for anything! Why think when someone else can tell me what to think? This sounds like a good D.C.-approved mindset for the masses.

Innocent (or lazy) slab junkies who worship at the Altar of Plastic Encapsulation (now blessed by the Mighty Sticker) actually aid the shysters who take advantage of people. Personal opinions can make others stop to think - which is exactly what a con man is afraid of. Thinking individuals kill the shyster's looting.

Why does Bobby report fake coins being sold on ebay? To help stop con men. By having a place to voice our opinions, we may enable the same thing - someone might not be conned.

Just like slabs are no longer the "ultimate" without a CAC, the CAC will someday not be the ultimate either. An informed person will understand this and be better prepared. It reminds me of the Beanie Baby craze (hey... maybe I should try slabbing Beanie Babies!). A lot of people spent a lot of money and got a lot of... plastic pellets inside cloth bags. But at least a few marketing people are now millionaires b/c they could make people think their product was valuable... this is good... right? At least P.T. Barnum openly said he made money b/c of fools (and still they came!).

All markets trends start with an individual opinion.

And I will once again end with major clarifications:
1. I do not believe everyone in the 'convince coin collectors they need to pay me for my service' business are evil to the core.
Now enough time has passed, that some of these people likely think they have done a great service. I see these people as some of the innocently-peer-pressured who likely did not know how much better the hobby atmosphere was before slabbing. Slabbing has produced a tunnel vision focus onto key coins while simultaneously reducing all other dates/MMs to melt value. Very sad, and a lot of fun aspects of the hobby are no more.


2. If a person understands the snake oil aspect, but decides they don't care about it b/c they "just like" slabs (with or without placing more value on different labels/stickers), then good for them! An informed person is not a sucker, and that person is just having fun with what they enjoy. I hope they are having a great time with their hobby - FUN is what a hobby is all about.

ad hominem?

It all comes back to the adage: Buy the coin, not the holder (or any stickers on the holder). We've all seen over and under-graded coins in TPG holders, and almost laughable CAC-stickered holders.

Learn to grade, make your mistakes, come to trust your eye and move on.

Thanks for all the opinions. I certainly see both sides of the argument. IMO grading/slabs are a nice tool to have in the day and age where a lot of transactions are done online. I get it that many times the grade on the slab may not be accurately so you should certainly buy the coin not the slab though. It does provide a decent amount of assurance that the coin hasn't been cleaned though, which is all too common with ebay coins. I get it that sometimes even cleaned coins can slip by a grader though. I think if the value of a coin is high enough, it's worth it to have slabbed (and possibly CAC) to increase your resale value. I personally have never sent a coin in for grading though. Anacs isn't considered a top grader and the process seems too complicated for PCGS. I think if you join the ANA you can submit coins to NGC but even that is pricey (and knowing my luck, my coin would probably come back "Details"! )

SA, when you are ready, you should consider submitting some raw coins to a TPG as it will help your education in coin collecting and make you a better buyer and grader, then, sell some of the coins and you will have a full understand of the process.