1773 Two Reales With Odd Countermark

Coinworldtv, you may be right...looks quite sharp...but, why a fake mark that isn't known to others? Fake marks are almost universally applied to increase a coin's value. That aside, it appears Asian or Mideastern in style. Perhaps a local mark from one of those areas...still a mystery. Thanks to all for your thoughts.

Modern fake stamp, genuine host coin. Likely of the infamous type out of Spain the past 6,7 years or so.

I agree it is a numismatic forgery. The percussive incuse mark on the reverse is typical of a Spanish Countermark of the type I illustrated in my book.

Whoever said it dates to the last 10 years is about correct. Most of these were made for ebay types.

The end of the punch has what appear to be saw marks on the field level at two angles. A hack saw powered by a human would be less likely to be as uniform as I see here. Two directions may have been to throw us off. I would expect a rocking cut if any - but the end of the puncheon should have been polished in any event before engraving.

To me I wonder about an "Arabic" or other script from a place like Malaysia or one of the Islands. The Spanish have been experimenting with those marks applied to MTTs.

The coin as a host is of course damaged beyond repair, however the punch forgery is worth documenting. I would peg value at silver melt for the coin plus $15 for the forgery as a maximum value.

yugotex I had missed that post before but that one looks worse than this example. The reverse percussive mark is not present so it may have been hand hammered which may account for the double strike. The punches are not identical but both are meant to be the Java countermark. Krause specifically mentions only a Lima 8R as a host coin of the Spanish Colonial type. This is a Mexico City 8R so it would potentially be a rarer item.

There is really no end to these forgeries.

Excellent observations, your insight appreciated....yugotex

I bought one of the Catalogo copies and traced it's origin to a store front copy center in Madrid. Like a copy facility in Staples in the US, the store caters to walk in customers.

There is literally nothing to publishing the "book" in this manner. You can buy one, but the cost is ridiculous for what you get. I got mine on the secondary market for a fraction of the "publication" price.

The copy I own of the "Catalogo", which is likely only one of many versions, does not have the Java stamp actually illustrated with the Java entry. The entry after an introduction describing the Island location in the Indian Ocean and naming the capital city; reads as follows "Dutch counter mark with legend in Javanese."

There is what may be a Java stamp shown on an MTT that is on a page titled Monedas de Austria. There are 12 MTTs illustrated on that one page (5.5" x 7.5") none of which are captioned or numbered so there is no link to the body of the book. There is one small picture with poor contrast of what may be the Java stamp on a late restrike of the MTT. The restrike is far too modern a coin to have a genuine stamp. The other 11 pictures are clearly Arabic stamp varieties.

I surmise that at the time my copy was run off (before 2012), the sales effort was directed at 8 reales types and not the MTTs with Arabic stamps.

I checked my Krause and you are correct there is a Mexican entry. I had missed that.

The punch is supposed to be Arabic for Java. I do not read Arabic but the stamp looks like it is a fantasy made by someone else who could not read Arabic lettering. In fact it looks more like a Mexican revolutionary counterstamp fantasy. I can see a Bow and other elements like the Congress of Chilpanzingo or elements of the National Congress counterstamp.

Does the slab identify the stamp as the 184.1?

The size of the punch also seem too large when compared to the Krause illustration.

Please follow this thread for 8 reales issues with java counterstamps.