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Raw Coin Only Dealers

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Pillar of the Community
United States
968 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2016  4:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Saruma to your friends list
Jbuck,

I agree mostly with you. What I am referring to is the general direction of the hobby where more and more slabbed coins are the standard. Someone with a loyal customer base can definitely make a living not doing that for now, but I think those buyers will become fewer and fewer as time goes on. Probably long enough from now that the old timers will make due.
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United States
1533 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2016  4:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Andrew99 to your friends list
Saruma, I know several of them. Its not that they don't realize. They just don't care. They cater to collectors of things like large cent, capped bust half, or bust dime varieties who are very sophisticated and have no need for an opinion of the grade of a coin. Most variety collectors are pretty old themselves. Maybe the sophisticated collector will die out as well in 30 years.
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United States
188850 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2016  5:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

Quote:
What I am referring to is the general direction of the hobby where more and more slabbed coins are the standard. Someone with a loyal customer base can definitely make a living not doing that for now, but I think those buyers will become fewer and fewer as time goes on. Probably long enough from now that the old timers will make due.
Yes, with that I do agree. They will probably pass on or retire before it really affects them.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2016  5:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list
My LCS has very few slabs out for sale, yet does a big business in submitting to TPG for us (his customers) and himself. He has told me that he typically trades/sells his own slabs to other traveling dealers or at shows because he understands that his shop needs to be "unpretentious and friendly" for most of his collector customers. If you want to see slabs for sale and he trusts you, he takes you back to his office.
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2016  6:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list
Raw coin only dealers: the best sort!
That's for me anyway.
I like to see the coin sitting in the palm of my hand before deciding to buy.

Museums know how to store and display coins.
In the British Museum, NONE of their coins are slabbed.
That's hundreds of millions (perhaps billions in total value) of Pounds in numismatic value.

I admit that my coins are in cardboard / Mylar 2x2's, (mainly for description and attribution purposes, in archival quality albums.

TPG slabbing best left for ebay sales of less than $100 by private sellers, mainly for fair grading and authenticity purposes.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1312 Posts
 Posted 08/25/2016  6:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thecoinguy1964 to your friends list
I don't even know how to respond to this original post, guess I'll just leave it alone.
Valued Member
United States
70 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2016  10:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Heynow to your friends list
Here is my issue. The local dealer is cool, fair grade and fair price. But after you buy the coin, and you want to sell, you need to convince someone that the coin is properly graded.

I thinks no big deal for inexpensive stuff, but for high dollar stuff, I don't want to put myself in that situation.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2016  10:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list

Quote:
Museums know how to store and display coins.
In the British Museum, NONE of their coins are slabbed.
That's hundreds of millions (perhaps billions in total value) of Pounds in numismatic value.

But the Smithsonian has had theirs holdered. (Unsealed NGC holders so the coins can be easily removed for study and display.)
Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2016  11:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list

Quote:
But after you buy the coin, and you want to sell, you need to convince someone that the coin is properly graded.

If the buyer is knowledgeable you still have to convince them it is properly graded. (although it is easier to do so) No smart buyer is just going to blindly accept the grade on the holder. they are going to look at the coin and decide for themselves. (Wow what a concept! Making your own decision.)
Valued Member
United States
70 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2016  11:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Heynow to your friends list
I'm new here, how do you qoute somebody?
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United States
188850 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2016  12:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

Quote:
Raw Coin Only Dealers - Coin Community Forum - Page 2
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Valued Member
United States
70 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2016  1:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Heynow to your friends list

Quote:
If the buyer is knowledgeable you still have to convince them it is properly graded. (although it is easier to do so) No smart buyer is just going to blindly accept the grade on the holder. they are going to look at the coin and decide for themselves. (Wow what a concept! Making your own decision.)


The way I look at is this. A slabbed coin is innocent until proven guilty. I start with the grade on slab, and see if it measures up to me. The beanie is more evidence. A raw coin is guilty until proven innocent, I think in the eyes of many
Edited by Heynow
08/26/2016 1:15 pm
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2016  2:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list
As on of the people who was collecting before slabs, I have to say that a lot of the fun of the hobby was killed in the name of the almighty dollar when the self proclaimed experts told everyone they were not able to grade coins for themselves.

Remember this was before the incredible cyber market opened up.

It was a sham, and a lot of the old timers knew it.

No offense meant with the following - its just fact to what we said at the time:
We poked fun at the masses saying to watch out... someday someone will rip off even more money by saying people need to send in their slabs, and pay to have their slab's grade verified by yet "more experts."

Since the CAC came on the scene, I don't believe it will ever end.
Raw-Coin-Only-Dealers

Next will be computer scanning/grading. This was tech available in the 90s, but, IMO (note that), the TPGs wanted to milk the public for everything they could. TPGs will implement "impartial computer grading" when business slows from lack of coins to slab.

After re-slabbing and making a mint, they will claim to have made a better, more impartial algorithm with higher degree of accuracy, and it will start all over.

When I see slabs, the remind me of the damage the TPG-necessity mindset has done to the hobby. It has reduced everything not "key" to "junk silver (etc.)" Imagine when, after finding a coin in circulation, you anticipated looking up its mintage/scarcity/value b/c the concept of junk silver was mainly only used for the most common of dates or damaged coins.

In all fairness, I did have some coins slabbed. This way if something happens to me, my family will know the plastic cases mean the coins are worth looking into instead of dumping at the bank.


How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
Download and read: Grading the graders
Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halves
https://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2
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United States
1533 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2016  2:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Andrew99 to your friends list
I am on both sides of the slab thing. One one hand, I am offended by common coins being sold for ridiculous money as condition rarities or for Registry points. PF-68, 69, or 70 coins do not exist except as slab rarities.

On the other hand, I like that I do not have to pay an expensive education fee everytime I venture outside of my core expertise and go to buy something new. I may be buying the slab to some extent, but the downside is much more limited that when I do that with raw coins. Consequently, I have an eclectic collection with some one ofs that I never would have bought if slabbing did not exist.
Valued Member
United States
70 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2016  2:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Heynow to your friends list

Quote:
I am on both sides of the slab thing. One one hand, I am offended by common coins being sold for ridiculous money as condition rarities or for Registry points. PF-68, 69, or 70 coins do not exist except as slab rarities.

.


I really agree. Condition rarity on common coins is an invitation to go broke. With + and - , mint state coins 33 different possible grade levels. Crazy!
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