| Author |
 Replies: 35 / Views: 3,944 |
Page 3 of 3
|
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4469 Posts |
Quote:
$44,650
but it went for the same money 4 years ago. I am not seeing where the OP coin sold 4 years ago. I could not find any records of this coin previously being sold in auction. Where are you picking up the information? |
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
5673 Posts |
Two similar graded coins sold at Heritage for about the same amount in 2012, but I think the OP's coin is nicer. Still, I agree it's a lot to commit without a good understanding of rarities and grading. As an investment, the transaction costs are substantial.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4337 Posts |
Quote:
I am not seeing where the OP coin sold 4 years ago. I could not find any records of this coin previously being sold in auction. Where are you picking up the information? Two similar coins sold. My point being that the market has not had the needle move on the issue in a 4 year time gap. I would imagine in an investment scenario you'd want to see a return in 5 years of 10%. If I put $44,000 into an Allied Bank CD today for 60 months the rate is 1.75% compounded which gives a return of $48,000. If I lock my $44,000 up in a coin where I paid a 17.5% buyers premium over the actual numismatic value I had better pick the right coin so I don't lose money. Remember, when you sell through HA or one of the houses, you don't see the buyers premium in your bottom line. |
|
Valued Member
United States
291 Posts |
I would love to add a coin like that to my collection, but with 3 kids, and 2 about to start college, I can't see parking $40,000+ in a coin with uncertain appreciation ability.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Quote:
If I lock my $44,000 up in a coin where I paid a 17.5% buyers premium over the actual numismatic value I had better pick the right coin so I don't lose money. Remember, when you sell through HA or one of the houses, you don't see the buyers premium in your bottom line. At lot of misinformation here: First off the numismatic value is the total price, not the hammer price. The total price the buyer pays is the numismatic price. Second, many consignors get more than 100% of the hammer price with no seller's fees at all. This is particularly true with large consignors with big dollar consignments. Edited by BH1964
10/09/2016 9:03 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3843 Posts |
Congrats on the purchase! I'm unsure how many of us here can adequately advise you on a coin of this level. You may want to have/hire an experienced/trusted dealer advise you if you plan to stay in this category of collecting. Did you attend the lot preview before the auction? Although Heritage and other big auction houses generally do an excellent job their photos may not be totally representative of the coin and it may be useful to preview in hand, yourself or through an agent.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
946 Posts |
Well that's a way to come onto the scene, cant wait until you find the million dollar coins ahaha
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4337 Posts |
Quote:
At lot of misinformation here: First off the numismatic value is the total price, not the hammer price The "Numismatic" value of the coin should not include a 17.5% fee that the auction house adds to the coin to cover their aspect of the transaction. You really think that is an accurate reflection of the value of the coin? By this logic may I take the Red Book, numismedia FMV or even an ebay hammer and add fees to come to the "true Numismatic value" of the coin? Do I add 17.5% to Red Book? Can I add 13% to my ebay sales and email my buyers and say "FYI, your coin you just won for $100 is actually worth $113 because of the associated fees? I mean why not? Your logic dictates this is the proper way. Quote:
Second, many consignors get more than 100% of the hammer price with no seller's fees at all. This is particularly true with large consignors with big dollar consignments. If the coins in example are not in the multi-six figure and into to the seven figure range. I doubt that HA or DL are splitting fees on $40K coins with the seller. Although I will call and ask today and report my findings later tonight. Edited by dsfreeworld
10/10/2016 08:33 am
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4469 Posts |
The coin sold for $44,650. The 17.5% is included in the $44,650 that is paid for by the seller. The seller could pay less than 17.5% if terms were negotiated with HA. The $44,650 is the value of the coin, and all pricing services (Red Book, NGC, PCGS, Numismedia) use the $44,650 to determin the value of a coin. The pricing services use multiple sales venues for coin pricing such as dealer or ebay sales. Edited by Slider23
10/10/2016 09:29 am
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Quote:The "Numismatic" value of the coin should not include a 17.5% fee that the auction house adds to the coin to cover their aspect of the transaction. You really think that is an accurate reflection of the value of the coin? By this logic may I take the Red Book, numismedia FMV or even an ebay hammer and add fees to come to the "true Numismatic value" of the coin? Do I add 17.5% to Red Book? Are you serious? Ask anybody in any auction field anywhere in the world. Of course it's an accurate reflection of the value of the coin (or any other item). What do you think it is? It's the price (total price) the buyer is willing to pay, which is the market value, which is by definition the numismatic value. It's a simple concept. Quote:Can I add 13% to my ebay sales and email my buyers and say "FYI, your coin you just won for $100 is actually worth $113 because of the associated fees? I mean why not? Your logic dictates this is the proper way. The ebay winning bid is the total price. It is the same as the Heritage total price (which includes the 17.5% buyer's premium). Auction results which dictate market value are the total price a buyer pays. Edited by BH1964
10/10/2016 09:37 am
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Quote:
If the coins in example are not in the multi-six figure and into to the seven figure range. I doubt that HA or DL are splitting fees on $40K coins with the seller. Although I will call and ask today and report my findings later tonight. Again you are wrong. Ask any major coin dealer. Heritage's 17.5% buyer's premium was $7k here. Of course they'll split that with the consignor. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4337 Posts |
Quote:
Again you are wrong. Okay, I spoke to Heritage today, twice. I called and spoke to two different people who are in the coin area in TX. They said, without any question, they would not offer a negative fee to the seller (i.e., splitting the buyers premium) until the consignment reaches multi-six figure. I asked specifically about this coin and any coin in the $50,000 range and I was told, TWICE, at BEST they would negotiate the reduction of the 10% sellers fee. Would you like to know the names of the employees, time of the call and their extension so you can call and ask as well? I am also happy to PM you my number, you can call me and we can conference and ask together. I have a lot of respect for you Brad as you've been very insightful over the years of our CCF forum exchanges and I'd appreciate being afforded the courtesy of NOT being told I am a fountain of misinformation when I have done my due diligence. Thank you |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
I'll just let this topic go after a final comment.
Perhaps I was harsh in describing the situation but: Heritage is like any business and all fees are negotiable. Of course they won't adjust them hypothetically for a caller inquiring about them.
I know of large dealers who always get more the than hammer price at Heritage auctions and anyone submitting a large consignment should never pay a seller's fee at the very least.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1119 Posts |
Quote:
The "Numismatic" value of the coin should not include a 17.5% fee that the auction house adds to the coin to cover their aspect of the transaction. You really think that is an accurate reflection of the value of the coin? why not? If I am paying it I include it the value. it not like bidders are unaware that there is a buyers fee added on. if there is no buyers fee I would bid 17.5percent higher |
|
Valued Member
United States
130 Posts |
Quote:The "Numismatic" value of the coin should not include a 17.5% fee that the auction house adds to the coin to cover their aspect of the transaction. You really think that is an accurate reflection of the value of the coin? By this logic may I take the Red Book, numismedia FMV or even an ebay hammer and add fees to come to the "true Numismatic value" of the coin? Do I add 17.5% to Red Book? Can I add 13% to my ebay sales and email my buyers and say "FYI, your coin you just won for $100 is actually worth $113 because of the associated fees? I mean why not? Your logic dictates this is the proper way. The 17.5% buyer's premium is definitely included in the numismatic or fair market value. Your two examples are completely different. The fair market value is the price a buyer is willing to pay. The fact that you as a seller pay fees to ebay does not impact the amount a buyer is willing to pay (even though it may impact the amount how much you ask for). Buyers will be factoring the buyer's premium into their bids. If there was only a seller's premium and no buyer's premium, I guarantee you people would bid higher on items. Edited by PAC
10/10/2016 11:29 pm
|
|
Page 3 of 3
|
Replies: 35 / Views: 3,944 |
Page 3 of 3
|
First Page
Previous Page
Posted 10/09/2016 1:32 pm
