Pennies, Cents, Call Them What You Will

I think the real issue is the production of the failed dollar coin program. We all know why it failed miserably too. The powers that be decided to churn these things out knowing that they would fail. Government pork? You betcha! It is a fact beyond the shadow of a doubt that coins last longer than the material notes are made of. However it just falls on deaf ears.

They failed only because the one dollar note was not withdrawn. Kill the note and the coins will circulate just as they do in Canada. It does not matter if you like it or if people complain, those are the facts. The dollar coin will circulate if you remove its existing competition.

Correct! It does not matter if someone likes it or if they complain that the American majority is not having to kowtow to an emotional few who prefer to support something shown to be baseless in claims of superiority.

This is what America is all about. Unnecessary coercion by the powers that be is a scary, worrisome desire.



To me this is kind of a "Captain Obvious" statement that keeps coming up ... and for what reason? I cannot imagine any person capable of thought would disagree that if there was nothing better () to use, then these coins would have circulated.

But the point is, there is no point -- in coercion to coins.

I am rather proud we Americans are again showing the rest of the world that as a whole, we don't see the sense, or feel the need to change our preference just b/c other countries have done so. We have always played out own tune (also to the benefit of other countries) and proudly continue to do so.

I have heard recently that playing with legos helps.

@ oriole
Moral... no issue I agree. But misuse of power by authorities when unnecessary is a very real issue.

Since you asked, I am assuming it is OK to answer without it being deemed too political and therefore erased.

Adaptation to these coins, or if the coins would circulate is also not the issue. I am saying the coercion to the system by eliminating what the people desire, with no legitimate and beneficial basis behind the change, would be a totally un-American and unjustifiable act by the government.

The penny can be shown legitimately to be a drain on the system and non-beneficial to our society. Hence, although I personally don't like the idea of it being removed, I will not whine if it is. I don't have a logical or verifiable leg to stand on for keeping it around.

The dollar coin's alleged benefits have been researched and shown through various threads, and for the last couple years, on CCF, to not be factual, or close to being as beneficial as we all originally thought.

Removing the penny is justifiable by the data. The dollar coin coercion is not - especially when there are legitimate options for "We The People" to keep the format the majority has shown to favor.

I am trying to point out to those wanting a coercion are sacrificing something much greater (likely without thinking about it) on the altar of personal, emotional desire.

I don't like seeing emotion and/or personal preference being put ahead of the bigger picture of valuing the citizens' express rights, when there is no basis, to a non-coercive government. Not letting the camel's nose in the tent is one of the oldest and most sage proverbs.

This may very well be true in urban areas. But out here where there are fruit stands, neighborhood garage sales, etc., most people do not have credit and debit card receivers on their phones.

And I know its hard for urban people to understand, but there are still a lot of people out there who don;t even have or want a smart phone. I know several people who don;t even have computers and although some of them are old, some are not.

I think what you are saying could eventually expand outwards, but likely only after there have been a generation or two pass who grew up in urban homes where electronic payment was the only thing used.

I know my own kids (all over 20) did their Christmas shopping online - hence no cash used - this year. The rural love of garage sales and flea markets though may just keep coins and currency in circulation for awhile yet to come.

And one more issue to bring up is that some of us old stick in the muds relish the idea that cash cannot be hacked electronically - or traced.

This especially comes to mind when thinking about buying guns and ammo for legal purposes/personal protection.

Just like privacy is something the younger generation does not value as much as people brought up without the internet. Tech advancing so quickly has made the difference between successive generations so much more noticeable and prominent in day to day living. Its also been fun

So, are emotions relevant or not?




I don't think you've ever been to the "flea market" in Canton, Tx.

Rural? Yes.

Reliant on cash? No.

I've expressed it before but, I don't understand the obsession with the word "coercion." Citizens don't define what the currency is or what form it comes in.

Emotions have their place.

I personally hate the idea of getting rid of the penny - but also have to admit its purely sentimental to me. So I have to weigh the evidence:

Making the cent is a waste of money. It is not logical to spend 1.7 cents to make something only worth one cent!

So now I need to see if it really will hurt consumers in any way (the moral and emotional issue). Not having cents will likely not cost me/us anything extra if the cent is gone, and businesses stick to factual rounding instead of automatically rounding everything up to a higher price.

So now the issue comes down to how much I value my own sentiment over the illogical waste of money. I tend to hate waste more than I prefer to favor my own sentiment on this non-life-threatening issue. hence, although I hate the idea - I can say I think the waste is not good overall. Although I think a devaluation would be the better way to go. Why? Then there is no waste and we all get to feel good about it too.

But as soon as I cross over and call someone stupid for not agreeing with me, then is when my emotions are out of check. Someone else is as entitled to their opinion as I am. I am childish when I am not mature enough (which happens in my human nature) to understand this fact.




I may be mistaken, but I believe this flea market may not be the norm. I have seen some flea markets with "established" venders who might take a credit card, but most of the flea markets I see are "bring your own table and sell" types. There is no reason to even ask a vender if they take a credit card b/c its very obvious they don't - especially when selling off the tailgate of a truck! The people holding garage sales wherever I have been also would look at me funny if I asked if they prefer cash or credit card.

I did, only once, go to an insulator show where there was one dealer taking credit cards with his iPhone and a special plug-in adapter. I am guessing there are large dealers in the (much larger coin hobby) who take credit cards at shows.




You are exactly right. I am sorry but my wording was very misleading in the statement you are replying to. What I meant to convey was I have very much enjoyed living with the fast evolving tech nowadays. I hate the loss of privacy likely as much as you do.



When I make a blanket statement about young people its from observations as a teacher of high school kids I was always surrounded by in my classes/schools. I understand there are always exceptions. In fact I deliberately talked with my students concerning privacy on the internet and the dire consequences that could result if they chose to ignore the issue. I attended a couple seminars at a teachers' convention to become better informed how to help my students when social media was in its infancy.



First google entry: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/coerce


Volition:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dic...ary/volition



Throughout American history the citizens of this country have overwhelmingly proven to the government (their employee, not their nanny as is sadly mis-programmed into the populace today) that Americans prefer (volition, free will, choice) the convenience of the dollar bill. Even the classic silver dollars we numismatists love so much now were issued over political issues concerning aspects of the bimetallic standard for money. The public was given the choice of bills or coins, a lot of the coins were made for shipping overseas anyway, and huge stashes of coins sat for decades in bank vaults - unused - sound familiar?

If an employee tells his boss he will not work as told, the employee is normally told to shape up or ship out. The boss normally will not be "coerced" by his employees to settle for substandard, non-preferred, not desired, expectations.

There has been a LOT of discussion on this forum over the past years of dollar coin vs bill. Its an intricate issue. I researched the issue from both angles. Any input on BOTH sides I looked into/posted results/asked for help determining mistakes on CCF. The government report lacked taking everything into account. It shows hypothetical taxpayer money saved (ooh - good for politics!) vs. the reality of the consumer being stuck with higher service costs imposed by banks and any other business that has to handle large amounts of coins vs paper. The average man also will pay more out of his pocket daily while the economy adjust upward to a higher level of costs that naturally follows as the value of the dollar psychologically is relegated to being the "new quarter."

Search for "The unanswered question" here on CCF. Its a long thread but recaps almost every point in detail, and the issue still ends up with no legitimate arguments for bill elimination being able to stand up to a holistic scrutiny. Please look at it there. I took the time to see what the issue all boiled down to and am satisfied, after asking for legitimate pointing out of fault in the research and getting none, that the conclusion is sound.