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 Replies: 23 / Views: 2,341 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7632 Posts |
1). Slabbed or not THAT coin has been played with in my opinion. There was a huge proliferation of artificially frosted coins that appeared about 25 to 30 years ago that fooled the best dealers and graders. The majority of the artificially frosted coins I remembered seeing were Morgan dollars. I believe the long-rumored perpetrator of that particular frosting scheme is now deceased. 2). We all know that TPG's make mistakes. 3). Whomever buys it better refrain from unslabbing it! |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3479 Posts |
I'm not knowledgeable enough to argue with you. I think it looks suspicious too. This is an odds game. 90% chance it has been doctored but what if it really is original?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7632 Posts |
Coin is an old green holder probably at least 15 years old. That says a lot.
Ask yourself: WHY is this coin still in an old generation holder and why has it not been submitted for reholdering and "green beaning" if it is so nice as the auction description claims?
It is not worth laying out 4-figure money on and finding out it has problems at a resubmission in my opinion.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11899 Posts |
In my humble opinion, this is a well struck, original coin. Frosted devices in a business strike occur during the first dozen impressions made with a new die. On top of being among the first few strikes, the metal had to fill the die completely and come into strong contact with the die at the highest points. This coin shows every indication of being fully struck. It is wonderfully preserved. This coin will sell for PQ money and deserve every penny of it.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts |
The one thing I've learned since I started collecting this series is that the really choice sld's are hoarded by their owners. They come up for auction when the owner dies and the kids(sadly)want to cash in. 99% of the slds floating on ebay and auctions are garbage. That's not to say that a few choice coins don't come up for auction every couple months. Not everyone's in the game to make a quick buck and I'm not saying you are either. I have a couple slds that could bean but it would be a pointless exercise. I'm holding them for the long-term. I sent an email to an sld specialist about this coin. I'll update when I hear back. Edited by MikeF
03/17/2017 9:54 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
759 Posts |
"99% of the slds floating on ebay and auctions are garbage." Hey, I bought a couple of those. Best I could do. I'm actually quite fond of them. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts |
Sorry onebowl! My tone was too harsh.  What I should have said is that 99% of the slds floating on ebay have altered surfaces. Some are even slabbed in problem-free holders. I need to learn to tone it down.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11899 Posts |
Quote:
I sent an email to an sld specialist about this coin. I'll update when I hear back. An expert has already weighed in. This coin was struck by a die in Osburn-Cushing Die state a/a. That means that the obverse and reverse dies were in perfect state when the coin was struck. I hope that the expert you are checking in with is Dick Osburn. He created the scale. The appearance of the coin is perfectly consistent with that of a very early strike. TPG is conservative here. The look of the coin and the opinion of the heritage cataloguer both point to a premium coin. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
03/17/2017 10:23 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7632 Posts |
I hope I'm wrong about this coin being played with. We shall see!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts |
Well, the student is suddenly Mr. Knowitall. Right on!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11899 Posts |
Quote:
Well, the student is suddenly Mr. Knowitall. Right on! I don't know it all. But I know what I know. What did your expert say? You asked for opinions on this thread. I guess you only wanted opinions you wanted to hear. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
03/18/2017 10:30 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7632 Posts |
All I know is the coin is in an old PCGS holder and the frosting looks "funny". Granted, the artificial frosting back then was mostly being seen on Morgan dollars but I would suspect that other series were getting played with, too. I know that if I owned the coin, and I suspected that it was under graded, it would have long ago been submitted for an upgrade or at least a green bean enhancement. If the auction company thought for one second that the coin had a shot at an upgrade it would have been resubmitted before auctioning. It would be too much money to leave on the table. Even a green bean enhancement at the 63 level, in a new holder, would be a huge plus. The coin is still in that old holder for a reason. If anyone really thinks it is under graded, and you've got some idle cash doing nothing, then buy the coin and resubmit it for an upgrade. I'll get my popcorn ready! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts |
Quote:Slabbed or not THAT coin has been played with in my opinion. There was a huge proliferation of artificially frosted coins that appeared about 25 to 30 years ago that fooled the best dealers and graders. The majority of the artificially frosted coins I remembered seeing were Morgan dollars. I believe the long-rumored perpetrator of that particular frosting scheme is now deceased. Are their any online articles that I can read about this? Do you have a name you could drop? I'm interested in learning more but any documented history of events in this business always seems very limited to hearsay. @numismatic student... you just sounded way too confident. Remember we are judging from a picture. Others pointed out some flaws that could raise some red flags. I love heritage. It's my favorite place to buy coins. But I have learned not to trust the descriptions. They are after all, in the business of moving product.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7632 Posts |
Mikef...
Do an Internet search for "detecting doctored coins" and you should find plenty of reading material.
Dropping the name of the dead coin doctor is not appropriate here. All I will say here is he was well known on the coin show circuit in Texas in the 80's. You could visit his table and his showcases were brimming with toned and doctored coins out the kazoos. It was to the point of being ridiculous....he did not try to hide it.
As far as the coin in this discussion goes I only know what I can see. A coin that others are saying is "under-graded" in a 15 or 20 year old holder has had plenty of opportunity to be cracked out and regraded, wouldn't ya think? The auction company is not stupid, the consignor is not stupid.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3479 Posts |
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Replies: 23 / Views: 2,341 |
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Posted 03/17/2017 9:00 pm
