IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com
Education Michael Sherman walks the viewer through nine reasons a coin will receive the 98 code designation. Among these problems are graffiti, planchet streaks, tooled surfaces, whizzing, machine damage, rim damage, surface damage, mount removal and holed or holed and plugged coins.
The numerical code of 98 stands for damage. PCGS defines damages as:
"Any form of metal movement, either intentional or accidental. Damage may include excessive or heavy rim dings and bruises, deliberate surface damage such as graffiti, attempts to remove spots, etc. The severity and extent of the damage affects whether it will get a "No Grade" decision. Whizzing is the use of a high-speed, rotating wheel to buff the surfaces of a coin, which actually moves the metal on the surface and leaves ridges on many of the devices."
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com
Quote: I think I will ask to return this coin. I could live with Details-Improper Cleaning, but not with the Damage designation.
Where do you think the damage is? I don't see any damage in the photo. Sometimes a harsh cleaning is considered damage and that might be the case here.
The coin does look cleaned in your images but otherwise looks like a decent example.
If the photos are enlarged you can see some "harsh" cleaning or tooling done below LIB on the obverse. Also, on the reverse between STATES and OF there looks to be the same type of damage. PCGS has much better enlargement equipment and expertise to analyze and properly identify the damage.
Return was not accepted by the seller. Appeal also denied. Some ebay technicality about sending the coin. ebay rep. told me I should of taken the coin to a place close to me. Did not offer a specific place. I don't believe ebay personal realize the security steps that are taken to send and receive a coin from PCGS or other TPG services. I really thought the seller would gladly accept the return, but he fought "tooth and nail" to reject the return. Live and learn-NO MORE RAW COINS FROM ebay!
Quote: Live and learn-NO MORE RAW COINS FROM ebay!
With all due respect, and please take this as a "Dutch uncle's advice," don't buy expensive raw coins at all until you learn some things about grading. Any collector, who has had some good experience with grading coins in general and Bust Dollars in particular, could have told you that the surfaces on this piece had been rubbed with an abrasive. The devise used may have been as simple as an eraser on the end of a pencil.
Beyond cleaning, there are counterfeits which are getting to be more and more of a problem. The Chinese are making and exporting what seems like millions of them. The counterfeits are not limited to rare and high grade coins. In fact the Chinese have made a business of marketing counterfeits that are replicas of common date, circulated coins like Morgan silver dollars. Therefore third party grading is a great idea because of grading and counterfeit issues.
As for you inability to return this item to the seller, I can understand that to a point. Fraud is not a one way street. Buyers have been known to switch coins and try to return a lower grade, lower value item for a full refund. This is why the stipulation, "Any coin removed from its original holder may not be returned," is included in the fine print of some transactions.
I am not casting any dispersion on you. I'm simply explaining a seller's position.
In this case you might have contacted the seller BEFORE you sent the coin to PCGS. If he agreed to have PCGS "arbitrate" the issue, then you could have gone ahead. If not, then you should have returned the item at that point.
On the positive side you've a got a nice looking, genuine, 1803 Draped Bust Dollar with VF+ Detail and the damage is not severe. In the long run this was not a total loss or tremendously expensive learning experience.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website:https://fairfaxcoins.com
Quote: I could live with Details-Improper Cleaning, but not with the Damage designation.
I only see a cleaned coin without any mechanical damage. I have learned to take PCGS's grades with a grain of salt, and you should too. Maybe they used the wrong code. If you are not happy with the holder, crack it out. You know that it is genuine.
I would actually value a damaged coin more than a cleaned coin, as long as the damage is not severe. If PCGS saw damage other than the cleaning, it was very minor as I do not see it.
But the moral of the story is that you should have known that you were getting a "details" coin, and you should have paid accordingly. A "cleaned" coin is a "damaged" coin, just by another name. Preferring one label to another is folly.
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Posted 05/19/2017 7:27 pm
