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Replies: 24 / Views: 5,625 |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
12477 Posts |
Very interesting discussion! It made me think of a token I have. I know it doesn't belong in this forum but, with tokens, sometimes being holed is intentional. Through my research, this piece is ca. 1900 and was holed by/for the merchant because it was used as a tag on a pair of shoes. You never know!  
In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020 In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020 In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3327 Posts |
I like the willow tree associated with the city. Very nice token.
"Nummi rari mira sunt, si sumptus ferre potes." - Christophorus filius Scotiae
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
I would think this is folklore and also probably a shameless attempt by a dealer to overvalue damaged coins. As MythBusters would say, "plausible", but unlikely.
A few thoughts:
- Sutler tokens were the most common (relatively speaking) means of self-identification for Union soldiers (merchant tents were not nearly as available to Confederate soldiers) followed by engraved metal items such as buckles.
- After August 1861, thanks to a Post Office ban, scarcely any "standard" mail was sent between the North and South except at dedicated truce points, and often only during POW exchanges. What little mail did make it through was delivered by private delivery companies, often at extreme risk of harassment from blockades and interdiction efforts from the other side. The mail exchanged at truce points was opened, read, and censored or discarded/destroyed if found to be objectionable or containing material that could be used by the enemy such as troop locations, movements, etc.
- Heading through 1862, SILVER small change was so scarcely encountered that by mid 1863 Fractional notes and even US Postage Stamps themselves were pressed into use as currency. This was a side effect of the government suspension of specie payments in exchange for paper currency. There was a surplus of small change coinage prior to the War, but it was quickly vanished from circulation into hoards by citizens and merchants who were worried about the war's effects on the economy, a feeling that if the Confederates won the war the value would be only in the metal and that the South would not honor the Federal face value (same thing for Northerners who worried about convertibility with Confederate money), a lack of faith in Federal and Confederate currency, etc.
- At any rate, the price did not remain 3 cents for long outside of the Union; by the end of 1861, in the Confederacy, it was already at 5 to 5.5 cents depending on means of delivery.
- It would have been easier, and much more effective, to purchase postage BEFORE you were given your marching orders; a stamped envelope would be less vulnerable to theft and battlefield corpse looting. A soldier wearing a silver coin on a necklace or string who was KIA would most likely find the coin gone (taken by the enemy as war spoils or even by their own fellow soldiers.)
- Soldiers who did write out "family notes" often exchanged them with trusted friends and fellow soldiers, who were most likely to know if one or the other had been killed and therefore in a position to send the mail. It would have been folly to carry the letter on yourself, and then rely on luck and blind faith that should you be killed in the chaos of a Civil War battlefield, someone would find your letter and actually deliver it on your behalf, assuming they were literate and could read and understand the contents (far from a given in the 1860s.) Furthermore, even if you were fortunate and someone of good intentions found your silver 3 cent piece and your letter, the odds of them being able to purchase postage stamps were only viable if they were a Union soldier posted near an encampment which had a mail tent or a sutler's tent; Confederate KIA's were pretty much out of luck given the price increase and the gouging by the private delivery wagons, and the lack of sutler-type merchant services.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Edited by paralyse 05/31/2017 11:55 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
For me at least, it is easier to find holed U.S. small silver of the 1800's, than it is to find un holed U.S small silver of the same period. It is also very common to find holed British Maundy coins of the 1800's; I have found that their occurrence is about equal to their un holed equivalents. I have about a dozen holed U.S. dimes, Half Dimes and Three Cent'ers. I am thinking of using them on a small silver trinket bangle for my daughter. They were holed by the jewelry trade originally, for this purpose. Keep and collect them anyway; they are a memento of U.S. history, quite apart from having almost no numismatic value. A hole in a coin ALWAYS = damage = severe loss of value to the coin. No different for U.S. small silver.
Edited by sel_69l 06/01/2017 02:42 am
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Valued Member
United States
309 Posts |
Follow this thought to its logical conclusion that a most rare and historical type set of holed coins could be bought by collectors with limited means. Type set hole fillers could be filled with holed coins. I saw an impressive collection of Flowing Hair, Heraldic, Bust, and Seated holed coins at the Whitman coin show in Baltimore some years back. Those holed examples all held the same historical interest as their non-holed counterparts at less than 10% of the cost. There were gold and silver coins, unusual varieties, and some higher (mechanical grade) coins worth a second look. Some of the hardest to find were the more modern holed coins with common types now turned scarce as holed examples found in the wild. Another friend collected Spanish colonial coins with holes for their history regardless of Numismatic grade and formed another worthy collection. Best of all the entire collection was raw, not needing slabbing and could be acquired at prices not seen for fifty years if you can overlook as insignificant a thing as a hole. In fact the type of hole mattered. Square nail holes and slow speed drills with wear on the spruces lended authenticity to the period of use over high speed drilll holes of modern and perhaps questionable manufacture. The Beatles animated movie Yellow Submarine featured a scene where the boys collected holes (from the Albert Hall) in a surreal sequence picking up the holes and putting them in their pockets, giving new meaning to the phrase "I've got a hole in me pocket." Why not try collecting holes in coins? They won't cost you an arm and a leg.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
In my experience, a hole almost always knocks the value down to a tenth of its problem-free value.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8518 Posts |
I did an entire collection of holed Flying Eagle and Indian Head cents. Was fun looking for them and very cheap. (Never could find the S mints though, someday).
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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CCF Advertiser
United States
1533 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4594 Posts |
Especially for the 1861 3cs this is nuts.
Estimated survival is 7,500 with 1,000 mint state. You do not have to settle for a damaged coin.
-----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1475 Posts |
@Paralyse,
Thanks for information on the subject.
I love reading these historical thoughts or analyses.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3343 Posts |
Slightly off topic, here's the kind of holed coin that interests me...and a lot of other bidders... http://www.ebay.com/itm/1853-G-1-Ca...AOSwJH1ZKiUCThis appears to be an 1853 BG-530. The Nouizillet "N" mark is obliterated by the hole. It's a common (600 survival) California fractional but it appears to be the real deal, and with an $83 bid is not much above its gold melt value. I've read stories about these being holed to keep them together on a piece of wire, but more likely it was an earring or on a charm bracelet. Whatever. They're part of the Gold Rush, and are very affordable private mint coins.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq 06/01/2017 4:09 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
Dad was an Army vet, a history teacher in New Orleans & a Civil War buff, and I got dragged (not unwillingly) to a couple of battlefields like Pea Ridge and Prairie Grove when we would visit the family in Arkansas. He would bring me home Minie balls and bullets and even a couple of buttons and a rusty belt buckle in a little glass case, once, and a metal pint-size replica of a "Napoleon" cannon. We would both devour the latest Michael Shaara and then Jeff Shaara novels as they came out (I'm reading Jeff Shaara's new book "The Frozen Hours" about Chosin/Korea at the moment!) and also non-fiction.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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Rest in Peace
United States
7075 Posts |
paralyse , thanks for your comments. I had some similar thoughts but I am no expert on the subject. It does seem possible that some soldiers might have done it -- but as you wrote, it would not have been a great idea that got repeated for all the reasons that you mentioned.
It always seems to me that holed coins were jewelry charms of some sort.
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New Member
United States
35 Posts |
Sometimes a holed coin is the only way for some collectors to get hard to find coins at a reasonable price. I collect bust half dollars, and I just bought an 1812-101 Large 8 overdate. I paid over a 1000$ for the holed coin, but an F-20 would have been over 8000$ if you can find it. Without the hole this coin would a vf range coin
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Valued Member
United States
114 Posts |
I don't know about holes, but what came to mind is chop marks on Trade dollars. Those can go for just as much as an undamaged example, assuming it otherwise has eye appeal. Personally wouldn't buy a holed coin though unless it was otherwise unaffordable, and a type I really wanted.
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Replies: 24 / Views: 5,625 |
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