When Is Wear, Wear? COA Emu Focus Shilling

Has it been cleaned? and what is it's grade (if it would be graded) please?

I agree & thanks.

What kind cleaning do you suppose has been applied to that one?
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Here is another one that I seen for sale:




This coin was given XF40 by NGC - they [NGC and PCGS] don't consider dipping to be cleaning.
They also don't consider conservation (cleaning) to be cleaning.

The pictures in this thread are no where near good enough to be drawing conclusions on whether or not coins have been cleaned. The only decent picture posted so far is the raw reverse of the 1911. The slabbed pictures are flat out terrible in all honesty and the extreme close ups aren't how coins are graded. XF coins like the NGC one will have circulation marks and bad photos will GREATLY enhance them.

The raw 1911 has the potential to be a nice coin if the whole thing was shown.

I have met many coin dealers I like a lot, and none that I trust.




Here is the Swedish auction house photo - unaltered except the <300kb mandatory CCF resize.



I took one look at that and thought 'go to NGC cert lookup' and the bottom image of yesterdays post is what is there - no retouch, no games - I cannot provide a better image.

One American auction site does magnificent coin photography that sets them apart from the rest - and that is where I mostly browse coins.

So my point? You don't need a nice coin with eye appeal to get an EF grade from NGC. Blind freddy can see something's a bit dippy there.

TPG's like NGC and PCGS will happily grade a dipped coin, as they don't consider throwing a coin in acid to be cleaning.
For decades many of Australia's leading Coin traders spent many happy hours removing patination from thousands of coins, and some of them still do.

While I do like Australian shillings, I have no particular love for the year 1911, I chose it here to create a scope baseline and some consistency.
The 1912 for example is far more interesting and valuable as are the 1913/1914/1915/1915H/1921s/1933/1940...

Is the raw 1911 here a nice coin? heck yes, without a shadow of doubt.
It has zero chance of an MS grade because it has indistinct high pearls, which people would consider unacceptable wear, even though the Monde (orb) and cloak are excellent.
[Most sub-MS 1911 shillings exhibit weak top pearls] It also has micro-scratches from a light clean with a post-rinse rub with a fibrous piece of paper or cloth at some point in it's lifetime.
All of that ^ is my opinion, but I do value other's opinions which is why I asked for them here.

Back on topic which is essentially is 'Are some MS graded coins unworthy of the grade?' In my opinion - yes.
If CCF will let this thread live on - I have some more images of MS graded 20th century Australian coins with visible wear. I will post them as time permits.

Affirmative.

Here is yet another MS contender - currently at auction:

302301082448

That 1911 shilling appears to have a die crack on the reverse at 7 o'clock .. which I have never seen before.

I don't know if that's a strike through or what?
Strike throughs will not stop a high grade - but NGC do usually punish you one grade point if it's conspicuous.
I learned that fact recently.

So do half the regular sellers on ebay

I can't resist dots - want to sell them and recover your money?




Two!, I'm excited, Are they for sale?

These fakes are invaluable as reference items for my future research and study.

Money is not an issue.