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Valued Member
 269 Posts |
Here is yet another 1923 threepence that has not appeared here before: [partial image - seller has watermarked the photo at rhs]  The seller has been an ANDA member forever and has a good reputation here and abroad. The coin is not an investment grade and is currently for sale for approximately a hundred. Again the rim characteristic is there... Coin is ok Edited by CoinOS
03/03/2018 08:44 am
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1364 Posts |
Quote:
TPG's have been known to slab Counterfeits, so I wouldn't necessarily take a slab as being conclusive as to a coin's authenticity. Sorry if I seem a bit negative. Now that's a real worry! Quote:read that a fake Australian 1923 halfpenny was certified and slabbed by a TPG.  ... double worry if this is really occurring! |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1040 Posts |
Quote:I read that a fake Australian 1923 halfpenny was certified and slabbed by a TPG. I'm really curious to see a photo of that one but can't find it. There is a Thread about it on this Forum,Pic.(or link) is in the Thread.I"ll try and find it when time allows. |
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Valued Member
269 Posts |
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There is a Thread about it on this Forum,Pic.(or link) is in the Thread I can't get the link to work, no photo. |
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Valued Member
269 Posts |
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... double worry if this is really occurring!
The graders at NGC and PCGS are pretty good, but they are not perfect. Edited by CoinOS
03/03/2018 08:46 am
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1040 Posts |
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I can't get the link to work, no photo. Yeah,found Thread,there is a Photo of it kicking around on the Net. somewhere,didn't show in a quick Google,perhaps it may be on the Oz. Coin Forum,i'll have another search this afternoon. http://goccf.com/t/137966Edited by Basil
03/03/2018 5:50 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1364 Posts |
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The graders at NGC and PCGS are pretty good, but they are not perfect. With the ever improving sophisticated, counterfeiting techniques who, or how, can we rely on what is real and what is not if not by these paid experts? Edited by coaster
03/04/2018 08:07 am
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Valued Member
269 Posts |
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With the ever improving sophisticated, counterfeiting techniques who, or how, can we rely on what is real and what is not if not by these paid experts? They get it right almost every time. Edited by CoinOS
03/04/2018 10:38 pm
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Valued Member
269 Posts |
-echidna Quote:
The key to identification is the rims.
Look for the extra high rim on the very outside. -paxbrit Quote:
You can clearly see two rims on the fake coin, the rim that appears genuine, and outward, a thin 'rim' or sprue that surrounds the other. That is no more than a high wire rim, here are confirmed genuine examples of this on a sixpence and an American coin.   The Wire Rim variety features a very thin and raised rim at the very outer rim of the coin - whereas the Flat Rim variety does not have this thin raised wire rim. In order for a coin to qualify as "Wire Rim" - the raised wire rim needs to be present through the entire circumference of the coin. The difference between the Wire Rim vs Flat Rim is depicted in the above image. This is common on early strike threepences and sixpences and is not a reliable indicator of a forgery. # Edited by CoinOS
03/19/2018 01:29 am
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
541 Posts |
@CoinOS
It was an NGC holder at Heritage. We pointed it out to HA, they withdrew it and sent the coin to NGC.
Try asking the Australian-threepence blog for details, they were aware of it too.
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Valued Member
269 Posts |
-wwwww Quote:
It was an NGC holder at Heritage. We pointed it out to HA, they withdrew it and sent the coin to NGC.
Which coin are you talking about? If it's the 1911 shilling, I'd be the one that spotted it & pointed it out to Heritage. Not sure who 'we' is. Quote:
Try asking the Australian-threepence blog for details, they were aware of it too. I have no idea what that is. Part of the Australian Coin Collecting Blog? I'm aware of it, but don't post there. The 1923 3d 'rim' discussion on this 302406106431 should be put to bed, it does not have a 'double rim' of any kind. That 3d coin from Spain on ebay is still of interest to me. I have been persuaded the 1911 from that seller is best left alone until this resolves. The only 1923 3d that has a dodgy rim is true-blue out of Victoria -> 292282185079I have heard that a 1923 halfpenny was mistakenly graded - and I don't doubt it, but thus far nobody has managed a photo. Edited by CoinOS
03/19/2018 06:20 am
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
852 Posts |
Hi CoinOS
Wire rims are also fairly common on the 1927 Canberra florin. I also agree that some other dates and denominations can be found with wire rims. The suspect coins however have a rim profile unlike normal wire rims, they have a rim, then drop and then rise to a sharp rim,
Even so I would not call that feature definitive proof of a fake coin (there may be a couple of examples of genuine coins with that feature, possibly something I'll cover later after more research, but they are not shillings). When Echidna gave the warning about the dodgy rims I checked my suspect shillings and found several with that feature, then I louped them looking for die markers and only then was I certain that they were fakes. My suspect threepence is certainly dodgy as it was the same seller as 5 of my shillings and from the same reverse as the one you were interested in.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
541 Posts |
@CoinOS
I'm talking about the altered date 1923 half penny that was in an NGC holder.
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Valued Member
269 Posts |
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The suspect coins however have a rim profile unlike normal wire rims, they have a rim, then drop and then rise to a sharp rim, I am discussing the 1923 3d in Spain called a forgery. Please observe the following image of a US cent:  - is that not what you describe in the quoted text? There has been a CCF topic with the same thing: Search '1999P Roosevelt dime - Is this Finning?' |
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Valued Member
269 Posts |
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My suspect threepence is certainly dodgy I don't know about your suspect threepence. Your MS63 PCGS 1927 threepence is overgraded in my opinion. While I reject all double rim theory as conjecture and not hard evidence, I have decided not to send any money to Spain for that coin. I'll hold out for a better one. Edited by CoinOS
03/22/2018 11:07 pm
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Posted 03/03/2018 06:07 am
