1880-O And 1887-P Morgans

Ok. I can see that happening. But that brings us back to the ultimate numismatic question that is on our mind (as well as every collector's mind when they look at a new coin), WHAT IS IT WORTH? These are obviously some beautiful coins with great details and luster. UNPROFESSIONALLY, since we are not graders of PCGS or NGC...or whomever your favorite grading company is out there...personally...I don't like any of them...too pricey and no uniformed method of PRECISE grading (hey, grading is like the law...it's however the judge interpretes it), I would have to say 63+ on the 80-O and 64+ on the 87. The previous scans do these coins no justice...so...someone help us out on this one, too, if you can accurately photograde!

DAVE...YOU AMAZE ME EVERYTIME!!!!! You have a 10000% valid point! It WOULD take both of the dies to shift BOTH the x-axis and y-axis in order for Becky's theory to work! At first, using her diagrams, I could see where it was possible, eventhough I had doubts, that the berry leaves might create the clash. The placement of the images together do not make this possible though. Now, we have to take it back to square one as far as the odds of both dies shifting on the x- y- axis at TWO different mints, on the same denomination, within 7 years time, creating the effect almost the same. Is Susanlynn out there? Sweetie...I REALLY think we might need to make a confrence with Rob Joyce for this one. He IS the VAM-man if my memory serves me correctly.

http://www.rjrc.com/

There is no VAM listed on his page for this in EITHER year. (By the way, it's been about a year since he last updated the page...so maybe he's working on identifying something like this...but in the meantime....HEEELLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Please!

Wow, I love your enthusiasm First thing to remember, all the dies were set by hand by people. There is no way to put them in there 100% perfect every time. That's why a friend of mine from the CU forums made this tool. It can be rotated accordingly, very cool stuff, huh The two lines at the top are perfect alignment, then you can rotate either way to see where the clash lines up on the coin.

As you can see, the leaves are right there on her mouth. Some coins are clashed so hard, you can see Liberty's whole profile on the reverse, including her eye.


There was is a new book that just came out for Super CD's. There might be something in there for the 2 coins you have, but it would have to be something like the examples I have shown you to be special.

WOW! I see what you mean. Do you have access to anymore of those clash charts? Or where can I find one? By the way, those display cases are beautiful! (Need some way to contact you so that we may discuss possibly purchasing one once we get situated in our home.) You see, my wife discovered these two Morgans, and up until last night, we have never seen ONE like it...even more boggling was when we have TWO!!!

I've seen die clashes before...but never on a Morgan and never this detailed. That should explain why I am so enthusiastic. I'm still not even sure who to believe! I mean, please, don't take offense to this by ANY means, but Becky is backed, so far as I can tell, by Rob. Dave, however, makes a good valid point that I can see to believe in a scientific manner. I want to keep this thread active so that we can get the High Guru Dr. Kimpton's advice on this subject. It would be a pleasure and an HONOR to have a true expert take a look and study our two coins.

I hope this does not offend anyone in any manner because that is not my intention! Everyone's input is valuable and priceless because this is a true learning experience. And since these are two of our most unique Morgans, they will remain with us. (So, if you know anyone looking to buy...the answer for these two is NO!) They make my wife happy and that makes me happy!

Anyone else have any ideas for me to research on here? Diagrams are always helpful in a situation like this because we do not know exactly what to look for. You can tell me all day long to look for a E or an arrowhead or whatever, but without KNOWING what I am looking for, I am as lost a new collector trying to find a '55 Double Die in MS65!

WOW!!! HE IS HERE!!!! It is an HONOR to have such an EXPERT in the field to be part of this community!!!! Thanks, Rob!!!!

I have looked HIGH and low for the book in stores but with no luck. It looks like we are going to have to break down and pay a good chunk for it off the internet. Does anyone know where to find it at a possible discount price? Our funds are limited because we are still trying to recover from Hurricane Katrina.

ezss, now that you have decided to trod The True Path and delve into Morgans, I strongly recommend that in addition to Van Allen and Mallis' book, you also purchase a copy of Q. David Bowers' Morgan Silver Dollars aka The Official Red Book of Morgan silver dollars. Not only have it at your side for constant reference, but read it from cover to cover. It makes for interesting reading: in addition to providing a lot of insight into Morgans, it also meshes period history in context with each year of Morgan production.

Fred

Becky, that's what I was hoping to hear from you. I had no problem visualizing EZ's coin as a clash, as long as the imperfect alignment of the dies could be explained.