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 Replies: 96 / Views: 12,412 |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1980 Posts |
well said SPP I just cant believe that we are actually argueing about shill bidding being ok
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:Something gives me the impression that those in vigorous defense of shill bidding on ebay may be participating in the practice themselves. Show me one time I've done that if you want to engage in character assassination because I was trying to help people. It's clear that most don't want the help so I will keep knowledge to myself going forward, but please show me a shill bid from your accusation. I'll wait....... |
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Valued Member
Canada
221 Posts |
Quote:TerryT: In the early 2000's, I reported shill bidders and counterfeit sellers on ebay. In those days you could follow all the bids, none were private and the full bidder ID was marked. I would mark sheets by bids and found many bidders only making bids on a hundred of one seller's items, in 20 different categories, all 3 seconds apart. It was a computerized program to systematically outbid the top bid on every item. ebay would shut them down and they would just return with another name. Later on, ebay started hiding the bidder ID and it became really hard to follow. You have to match the feedback score to only the first and last part of the bidder ID, and as****es can use so many different methods, and I gave up. (If you want to start, use the ID name above as****es, [shol works well], and maybe add maybe 3 more ***'s, and you get lost quickly) I also bought an early pile of Chinese counterfeit "crowns", 72 of them (UK, Mexico, US, France, S. Africa, Cuba, etc.) and made an advisory on the ebay community pages. It disappeared a bunch of years later and more Chinese counterfeits continued. As another contributor here says each time he posts, "Ainsi va la vie" "That's how life goes". p.s. ainsi - don't apologize for your English. I've live in Quebec since I was 15 (54 years), married into a francophone family, worked a lot in conversational French, and wish I could write as well in French as you do in English, Bravo. Is that le or la ? @TerryT: Thank you for the compliment. The problem is that after writing a text in English, I'm unable to say if there are 1, 5, or even 100 grammatical errors, and that's a little irritating for me. Indeed, because I have always thought that a well written comment was a sign of respect towards our interlocutors... But I will make an effort to mention it less often in the future. For your question, if in the sense of "Le" or "La" you mean "Il" (He) or "Elle" (She), its "Le".  ----------------------------- Otherwise, to come back to the subject of this publication, it would have been interesting to have the seller's response if he is present on the forum. Maybe this one has a good explanation, although personally for the moment I can't find any, especially when the behaviour occurs on multiple occasions. Since I find it relevant to give people an opportunity to respond before making accusations. I'm sorry if my English isn't perfect... I'm learning a little more every day.
Edited by ainsivalavie
03/02/2019 10:47 am
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5589 Posts |
I think that the seller is too embarrassed to speak up, now that everything is out in the open. Many of us know who it is and, based upon his past conduct, doesn't surprise us one bit. He probably has more than 1500 posts on here and is referred to frequently.
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
21616 Posts |
Okie-
I'm not sure if he is reading these postings.
The last time he was on the Forum was 11/25/18,
so it seems he hasn't been active for awhile.
Also you were close when you said 1500 postings.
The actual number is 1375.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5589 Posts |
There's a chance that he was kicked off this site, just like numerous others.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1980 Posts |
what I find funny is he didnt even try to change the pictures or description at all in an attempt to not make it look like shill bidding
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1505 Posts |
Quote:
Many major auction houses around the world actually do allow that if you read through their terms. Most also reserve the right to bid on items they are auctioning for their own purchase as well. For what it is worth, I have seen this on several major auctions sites as well. I am not going to list/reference all of them, but this comes from Heritage Auctions terms and conditions. Unless I am misunderstanding the premise here, this should be sufficient. Look at terms and conditions download under Orders & Bids https://www.ha.com/c/ref/website-use-agreement.zx... Conducting the Auction: 13. Notice of the consignor's liberty to place bids on his lots in the Auction is hereby made in accordance with Article 2 of the Texas Business and Commercial Code. A "Minimum Bid" is an amount below which the lot will not sell. THE CONSIGNOR OF PROPERTY MAY PLACE WRITTEN "Minimum Bids" ON HIS LOTS IN ADVANCE OF THE AUCTION; ON SUCH LOTS, IF THE HAMMER PRICE DOES NOT MEET THE "Minimum Bid", THE CONSIGNOR MAY PAY A REDUCED COMMISSION ON THOSE LOTS. "Minimum Bids" are generally posted online several days prior to the Auction closing. For any successful bid placed by a consignor on his Property on the Auction floor, or by any means during the live session, or after the "Minimum Bid" for an Auction have been posted, we will require the consignor to pay full Buyer's Premium and Seller's Commissions on such lot. ... 15. Auctioneer reserves the right to refuse to honor any bid or to limit the amount of any bid, in its sole discretion. A bid is considered not made in "Good Faith" when made by an insolvent or irresponsible person, a person under the age of eighteen, or is not supported by satisfactory credit, collectibles references, or otherwise. Regardless of the disclosure of his identity, any bid by a consignor or his agent on a lot consigned by him is deemed to be made in "Good Faith." Any person apparently appearing on the OFAC list is not eligible to bid. Quote:
...I just cant believe that we are actually argueing about shill bidding being ok Caveat Emptor always applies Best advice I have seen in this thread, is look at the max you are willing to pay, if you get it for less, happy days. If not, wait for the next time. That being said, I also hate shill bidding and private sales, but that is the world we live in. Edited by purelywasted
03/02/2019 4:18 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1505 Posts |
In the US: it can be legal, providing it is posted (eg. Heritage Auctions) https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/2-328 (4) If the auctioneer knowingly receives a bid on the seller's behalf or the seller makes or procures such a bid, and notice has not been given that liberty for such bidding is reserved, the buyer may at his option avoid the sale or take the goods at the price of the last good faith bid prior to the completion of the sale. This subsection shall not apply to any bid at a forced sale. I like the option it gives the buyer, but probably pretty hard to prove/enforce on ebay.com wins. In Canada: It appears it is not legal based on basic research, but this could vary by province. I am not going to read the various laws and statutes, I'll leave that up to someone else. Maybe someone who claims it is illegal ;-)
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Valued Member
United States
392 Posts |
I just assumed a few people were doing shill bidding to get more profit. I avoided those auctions even if I wasn't entirely sure and only had suspicions. but I'm buying low cost coins. I'd be really mad if I was bidding on high cost coins and it was rigged against me getting a fair deal. A fair deal means I could pay a little too much or I could pay below average price and That depends on a lot of factors. Some are under my control and others depend on the next highest bidder. I didn't expect the seller to influence the bids. This thread is an eye opener. Thanks for the info. Also I don't bid on reserve auctions because many don't have enough bids to reach the reserve price. Maybe others have a different experience but that's my 2 cents worth.
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Valued Member
Canada
206 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
822 Posts |
Ottawavoyageur, For many years (at least 15), I've been buying off the ebay seller you have posted about. He's one of my favorite sellers on ebay. I don't know him, where he's from (okay, just looked - Nebraska), or anything else about him, but I've never had any suspicion or any problems after winning at least a hundred of his auctions. I have mostly paid less than 50% of TRENDS ! There's no way this guy uses shill bidders. I posted earlier that I used to track for shill bidding on ebay. Users of shill bidders build up the shill bidders' feedback on very low-cost auctions. There are actually ways to build it up for pennies a feedback. They also don't bid on only 1 item at the last second. The bids are entered at least 4 seconds to catch the last of the snipe bids, or minutes before to force live bidders up. Lots aren't bid on 1 at a time, but over the whole breadth of the seller's items automatically. Check the bidding of the user over the last 30 days. If it's 1000's on the same seller, different categories, same time, then think shill. I think the fishiness in the sales you showed were a result of the 0-feedback bidders. I also would be wary of buyers with 0 feedback bidding on $100+ items. Looks to me like a "not received" scam would be the next step after the auction, as the seller does not send by tracked mail. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5589 Posts |
Terry ... the person that almost all of this thread concerns is not this latest seller in the auction just noted from Nebraska. The real culprit is well-known on here and from Canada ...
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Moderator
 Canada
10458 Posts |
Bill, I realize that CCF member is not one of your favourite numismatists, but let's not turn this into a witch hunt, anymore than it is...
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Moderator
Canada
10458 Posts |
I think this thread has run its course... in a short time, all the ebay links will be invalid... Or, as SsuperDdave used to say, "Ding, the toast is done!"  "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Posted 03/01/2019 8:47 pm
