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 Replies: 24 / Views: 10,287 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4541 Posts |
Mine looks more like your jaobler
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Valued Member
United States
63 Posts |
Like FIR said it has been cleaned but sill a keeper!  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts |
I believe the coin photographed in the original post of this thread is an alteration. Whomever created the alteration seemed to have forgotten that on the genuine coins there is distinct doubling on the 4 of the date on a genuine coin, which the coin in the first post of this thread does not have.
I have taken the liberty of copying both images into my computer and running a point-to-point match overlay and the position of the digits of the date match as they should for size and shape, and the doubling of the 1 of the date matches for size and shape. The four digit, however, is completely wrong. It is 'normal' whereas it should be strongly doubled.
A far closer shot of the date area only of the coin in question would help to support or eliminate this claim.
I currently have no method of uploading my overlay, but I can assure you the 4 digit is different from that on the PCGS holdered example.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3507 Posts |
Chuck,
GREAT EYE! The coin at the top of the thread is a fake.
On a genuine coin, the 2 appears on top of the 1.
On this fake, the 1 rides on top of the 2.
It has also been cleaned as I said before and the second attempt to show pictures of the coin shows a fingerprint.
In any case the moral of the story is I also have to look more closely at some of these pictures when they turn up. My Red Flags went up but I didn't figure why until Chuck pointed out what he saw.
Nice Job, Chuck!
Bill
Edited by foundinrolls
09/24/2008 3:08 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
891 Posts |
Take a look at the reverse. I used your image and pointed out an area where there should be a die line. It should be just above where the olive branch meets the fasces. Can't really tell for sure if there is one there or not, but it doesn't look like it. All 1941/2 coins have this die line. If it isn't there it isn't genuine.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3507 Posts |
Hi All,
I had some other major authenticators look at the pictures of this coin. It is without question a fabrication of some kind. I feel bad for Kloccwork419. If he purchased this coin with a plan to sell it, he is going to be told by any major auction house that it is indeed a fake.
Bill
Edited by foundinrolls
09/25/2008 12:50 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4113 Posts |
I also feel real bad for Klooccwork419  ! Bill/Chuck: Next question,for educational purposes, if indeed this coin has been altered etc, do you know how it was done? Inquiring minds( like mine) would love to know how this was accomplished. Edited by chuckster 125
09/25/2008 1:10 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3507 Posts |
I am not sure of the process used on this one but there are many possibilities.
In this case, it looks like a 1941 that has been altered. According to one of my sources, it appears that the 2 was added.
The 2 could have been shaved from another coin and applied to this one with an adhesive. some 1909 S V.D.B. cents have had the "S" applied to 1909 V.D.B. cents that way.
If someone is real good, they can move the metal from the surface of the coin to create a nice extra digit or numeral.
A real pro could heat the coin and solder a digit in place. This coin having been cleaned may have involved the use of heat and the cleaning was used to remove the evidence of heat effecting the coin.
Another possible way (but I don't think so in this case) is to make a die from a 1941 dime then engrave the 2 into the die made from the 1941 dated coin. Then they strike a coin.
A punch may have been made with a portion of a 2 (I don't think so on this coin but I am listing possibilities)
There are some very deceptive counterfeit, die struck, 1909 S V.D.B. cents out there. Lots of deceptive , die struck, fake bust halves and gold coins too.
Even a mold can be made of a 1941, a 2 engraved and then silver poured into the mold. (Again a possibility but I don't think this was done to create this coin)
The ways to produce a fake are numerous and good fakes are out there. These are some of the possibilities. I am not sure which method was used to produce this fake.
What puzzles me is that since the coin was pronounced a fake, the person who originally posted the coin has not commented.
Edited by foundinrolls
09/25/2008 1:23 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts |
USUALLY - these are fabricated using a lot of care, a microscope, and molten silver solder. with tools to shape the figure onto a genuine coin.
SOMETIMES - the entire coin is a counterfeit, cast from a mold made from a genuine coin.
RARELY - these are struck using dies that were (rather elaborately) fabricated and genuine blank planchets.
Alterations generally never get by experts undetected. Counterfeits have gotten by experts and far more frequently than a lot of grading services would like to have to admit.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3507 Posts |
Chuck,
Again...Nice call!
Bill
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1359 Posts |
wow..someone feels sorry for me!!..lol
Didnt buy it. So everyone can go back to sleeping at night.lol
Thank You.
And I'm still waiting for the info so Ill paste it here soon as I know.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4113 Posts |
Thanks Bill and Chuck for the detailed explanation as to how this could have been done, appreciate the knowledge! Amazing what someone would/could do to a coin to cheat/rob/hose etc someone else. Kloccwork419- Feel real bad for you, not sorry for you.  Seriously- good luck with this, whatever way it turns out for you. Chuck. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1359 Posts |
No.I own the coin. I nevr bought it , I just had alot of coins givin to me for a tattoo. I do tattoos and this is one that was in the bunch. I didnt know anything about coins til about a month ago. Now I'm hooked pretty bad.But I already received alot from the coins I did sell so this loss really isn't anything but a learning experience!
Plus I joke around ALOT so if I seemed like I was being an butt,I wasnt.
sorry. Just jokin with ya guys
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
Here is an image of the two dates and why the coin can't be real. Good topic for searchers/buyers to know before buying a fake.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5318 Posts |
Coop, great composite image!  |
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Replies: 24 / Views: 10,287 |
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First Page
Posted 09/24/2008 10:55 am
