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1941 / 2 Mercury Dime

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Kloccwork419's Avatar
United States
1359 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2008  3:44 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Kloccwork419 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I figured Id let you guys see the coin that will up for auction on Heritage the first week of December.
Soon as I get the details Ill pass it on..

This is my most favorite coin!

1941-/-2-Mercury-Dime 1941-/-2-Mercury-Dime 1941-/-2-Mercury-Dime
Valued Member
United States
109 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2008  4:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Duckhawk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is that considered an overdate or an error of some sort?
Nice coin

Mike
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2008  4:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A coin like that is commonly referred to as an "overdate" but it is technically a doubled die with the die being created using two hubs of differing years. True overdates involve hand punching the year into the die, which was 18th and 19th century minting technology. Look at the Bust half dollar series and you will see many overdates.

Edited by biokemist6
09/24/2008 1:16 pm
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foundinrolls's Avatar
United States
3507 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2008  5:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Two comments, That coin was cleaned as evidenced by the hairline scratches if you look closely. Therefore it is not as nice as it would appear.

Then, there is no such thing as an overdate on modern series of coins.

These are Class III doubled dies. It is called Design Hub Doubling

A working die receives impressions from two different yet complete working hubs, each hub having a different design. It is not a 2 over 1 or 42/41 etc.

Two different hubs were used to make the die.

Thanks,
Bill

Valued Member
United States
109 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2008  5:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Duckhawk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for the explanation, the process is clear now.

Mike
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Kloccwork419's Avatar
United States
1359 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2008  6:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kloccwork419 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There really isn't any "scratches" on this coin. It was enhanced a lot on PS to brighten the pic up. Ill post another one maybe you can see what I'm talking about. When you highlight everything u will see any mark on a coin. I don't think it was cleaned ,it looks more like any natural wear from any cloth,cotton gloves, etc.

1941-/-2-Mercury-Dime
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KurtS's Avatar
United States
5318 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2008  6:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just in case it applies here, I'll add that many digicams pick out minute surface details over luster. The effect is often a "whizzed" look on silver coins, when it's far less evident in hand. That said, I trust Bill's eye if he saw something. Sometimes I'll only spot whizzing if I compare the junction of the devices to the field at several lighting angles. There is often a gap in the sheen around lettering and portraits on a cleaned silver coin. Of course, the coin in hand is worth 1000 photos.
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daviscfad's Avatar
United States
4541 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2008  11:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add daviscfad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bill I am siting here marveling over the coin as I have one that dont look that nice!I am glad we have people here that can spot cleaning like that thanks
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Jaobler's Avatar
United States
6381 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2008  01:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's an enlargement from a photo of a recent example sold on Heritage. This one is graded MS-64 by PCGS. Is it just me, or does the date on Kloccwork's look a bit "off"? Compared to the PCGS example, the 1 seems to extend further down below the base of the 2, the bottom of the 4 is not as sharply notched, and the 4 seems too close to the 9.

1941-/-2-Mercury-Dime

There are fakes known for this date; does this one look OK to our other forum members?
Edited by Jaobler
09/24/2008 01:41 am
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Kloccwork419's Avatar
United States
1359 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2008  07:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kloccwork419 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
lol..Ill give you the listing as soon as its done
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daviscfad's Avatar
United States
4541 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2008  10:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add daviscfad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Mine looks more like your jaobler
Valued Member
Dimetime's Avatar
United States
63 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2008  10:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dimetime to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Like FIR said it has been cleaned but sill a keeper!
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coppercoins's Avatar
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2008  12:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I believe the coin photographed in the original post of this thread is an alteration. Whomever created the alteration seemed to have forgotten that on the genuine coins there is distinct doubling on the 4 of the date on a genuine coin, which the coin in the first post of this thread does not have.

I have taken the liberty of copying both images into my computer and running a point-to-point match overlay and the position of the digits of the date match as they should for size and shape, and the doubling of the 1 of the date matches for size and shape. The four digit, however, is completely wrong. It is 'normal' whereas it should be strongly doubled.

A far closer shot of the date area only of the coin in question would help to support or eliminate this claim.

I currently have no method of uploading my overlay, but I can assure you the 4 digit is different from that on the PCGS holdered example.
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foundinrolls's Avatar
United States
3507 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2008  3:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Chuck,

GREAT EYE! The coin at the top of the thread is a fake.

On a genuine coin, the 2 appears on top of the 1.

On this fake, the 1 rides on top of the 2.

It has also been cleaned as I said before and the second attempt to show pictures of the coin shows a fingerprint.

In any case the moral of the story is I also have to look more closely at some of these pictures when they turn up. My Red Flags went up but I didn't figure why until Chuck pointed out what he saw.

Nice Job, Chuck!

Bill
Edited by foundinrolls
09/24/2008 3:08 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
891 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2008  8:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Southern Yankee to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Take a look at the reverse. I used your image and pointed out an area where there should be a die line. It should be just above where the olive branch meets the fasces. Can't really tell for sure if there is one there or not, but it doesn't look like it. All 1941/2 coins have this die line. If it isn't there it isn't genuine.

1941-/-2-Mercury-Dime
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foundinrolls's Avatar
United States
3507 Posts
 Posted 09/25/2008  12:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add foundinrolls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi All,

I had some other major authenticators look at the pictures of this coin. It is without question a fabrication of some kind. I feel bad for Kloccwork419. If he purchased this coin with a plan to sell it, he is going to be told by any major auction house that it is indeed a fake.

Bill
Edited by foundinrolls
09/25/2008 12:50 pm
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